Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[MaDef]

It would be ironic if the troops and equipment turned out to be the Russian version of the First United States Army group.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

It's all intended to attract attention from the on-going Battle with the Reptilian Aliens from a different Planet anyway.
Saw it on TV so it must be true!

OH No!! How long have we got till we all die a horrible death?

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

It's all intended to attract attention from the on-going Battle with the Reptilian Aliens from a different Planet anyway.
[...]

Again, let me out of this

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Should we really be that concerned if Russia wants to occupy areas that are primarily Russian anyway? It’s not like he wants to send tanks into Finland or Mongolia.
https://sputniknews.com/20150425/1021367799.html

No we should not. Just the way Putin speaks of "genocide" in the russian areas is "a bit" overblown? And that he wants to help them, reminds of Georgia and Tchetchenia. But then pretexts for invasions have been used since millenia. I take it that regions with a major russian population will have problems with a western-leaning government, and will be hard to keep in line. On the other hand Russia did a lot to stir the pot here.

Also, as i have said numerous times before, the west is not innocent when it comes to Ukraine's situation. Russia's offers or requests (even to join NATO) have been oh so politely and ever diplomatically turned down time and time again, while NATO crept ever closer to Russia's borders. It was from the 1990ies up to 2007 until Putin was at the end of his tether. All sides are grey here, from dark to light.

Now this Live: "No other path than Nato for Ukraine" - president Volodymyr Zelensky
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-60413332

[Skybird]

The predetermined breaking points. The map shows the percentage of the population of Russian origin, according to the 2001 Ukrainian census.




In an ideal world, I would say what I always say in case of conflicts like this, may it be the Basque territory, Catalonia, Ireland, Scotland, Gibraltar, Falkland, wherever: have a referendum of the population in a local region and let them decide, free and uninterferred by external powers, whether they want to side with an external power and become/stay a governed part of that, or be independent. In any case, however, they must pay for their own costs, you cannot be independent while dependign on others to pay your bills. That is a contradiction in itself.

Unfortunately, some counties like the Ukraine lie in the transition zone between "empires", where the influence of the centre fades and the the influence of the other side grows. And empires live by their own logic, that is they cannot continue to exist if allowing being challenged in their periphery without answering to that challenge and winning it. They cannot afford to let such independency movements succeed without loosing themselves in power and relevance.

This contradiciton cannot be solved, and so it all to often gets settled by violence and answering the question who the stronger is. Thats not the ideal life but the real life.

The map shows that 20 years ago the implied Russian argument to have claim for territories due to the Russian share in the regional population only is valid for the Crimean, but neither for Donbass nor Luhansk.

Kiev on the other hand by the Minsk agreement would be obligated to give huge Russian minorities special rights and protection, but has refused to do so, if I can trust the media coverage.

[Jimbuna]

Shelling breaks out in east Ukraine as West and Moscow dispute troop moves.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...out&li=BBoPWjQ

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says joining the Nato alliance is a guarantee of security for his country - and that he will not compromise on this.

He tells the BBC: "It's not an ambition. It's our life."

Russia is opposed to Ukraine ever joining and wants guarantees that this will not happen.

The US and Western allies are warning Russian forces could launch military action any day - but the Kremlin has repeatedly said there are no such plans and claims some units have been withdrawn in recent days.

The world is watching for proof of Russian de-escalation - as a senior US official says contrary to this claim, a further 7,000 troops have arrived at Ukraine's borders.

President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen says the EU will remain vigilant until Moscow's words are reflected on the ground.

UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss, who is travelling to Ukraine, says the West should not be fooled by Russia's claims.

[Rockstar]

There’s the difference plain as day.

One organization has certain criteria which must be met in order for a country to receive an invitation to join a greater alliance.

The other is like a spoiled child who will throw a tantrum and destroy to gain control of something which doesn’t belong to them.

[mapuc]

I haven't changed my mind on Ukraine-They shall not become a NATO member-They do not fulfill the demands at all far from it.

Markus

[clayton]

If true, this will be the beginning of the end for Putin. Make no mistake.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I haven't changed my mind on Ukraine-They shall not become a NATO member-They do not fulfill the demands at all far from it.

Markus

I have that feeling they are far from membership as well. But I do believe it is their choice and right to work towards that goal. Without interference from another because of some nostalgia for sphere’s of influence like the good old days.

[Exocet25fr]

Anyway ! mapuc is right, but don't panic !

In case of Nuke war between Biden and Putine, the European aren't concerned!
Look at the terrestrial globe, in fact the short way between them doesn't go through Europe...!

[mapuc]

Latest news about Ukraine in our news.

The US Deputy Ambassador has been expelled by the Russians

Russia has today submitted a new list of demands for security guarantees, which must be met if the conflict in Ukraine is to be escalated.

Informs the Russian Foreign Ministry according to Reuters.

The demands mean, among other things, that all arms deliveries to Ukraine must be stopped, that already delivered weapons must be returned and that the Ukrainian government must comply with the Minsk peace agreement. In addition, Russia insists that the United States withdraw its troops in Central and Eastern Europe.

Markus

[clayton]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Latest news about Ukraine in our news.

The US Deputy Ambassador has been expelled by the Russians

Russia has today submitted a new list of demands for security guarantees, which must be met if the conflict in Ukraine is to be escalated.

Informs the Russian Foreign Ministry according to Reuters.

The demands mean, among other things, that all arms deliveries to Ukraine must be stopped, that already delivered weapons must be returned and that the Ukrainian government must comply with the Minsk peace agreement. In addition, Russia insists that the United States withdraw its troops in Central and Eastern Europe.

Markus

That's not happening.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by clayton

That's not happening.

Here' some more from another Danish online newspaper

Russia stresses that the country could be forced into a military response if the United States does not meet Russian security requirements.

"In the absence of US willingness to negotiate clear and legally binding guarantees for our security, Russia will be forced to respond, including through military action," it said.

Not looking good at all.

Markus