SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
02-17-22, 12:45 AM | #646 |
Ace of the Deep
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,046
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0
|
It would be ironic if the troops and equipment turned out to be the Russian version of the First United States Army group.
|
02-17-22, 01:54 AM | #647 |
CINC Pacific Fleet
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Posts: 32,860
Downloads: 171
Uploads: 0
|
OH No!! How long have we got till we all die a horrible death?
__________________
Sub captains go down with their ship! |
02-17-22, 04:42 AM | #648 |
Dipped Squirrel Operative
|
Again, let me out of this
__________________
>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. |
02-17-22, 05:32 AM | #649 | |
Dipped Squirrel Operative
|
Quote:
Also, as i have said numerous times before, the west is not innocent when it comes to Ukraine's situation. Russia's offers or requests (even to join NATO) have been oh so politely and ever diplomatically turned down time and time again, while NATO crept ever closer to Russia's borders. It was from the 1990ies up to 2007 until Putin was at the end of his tether. All sides are grey here, from dark to light. Now this Live: "No other path than Nato for Ukraine" - president Volodymyr Zelensky https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-60413332
__________________
>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 02-17-22 at 05:54 AM. |
|
02-17-22, 06:23 AM | #650 |
Soaring
|
The predetermined breaking points. The map shows the percentage of the population of Russian origin, according to the 2001 Ukrainian census.
In an ideal world, I would say what I always say in case of conflicts like this, may it be the Basque territory, Catalonia, Ireland, Scotland, Gibraltar, Falkland, wherever: have a referendum of the population in a local region and let them decide, free and uninterferred by external powers, whether they want to side with an external power and become/stay a governed part of that, or be independent. In any case, however, they must pay for their own costs, you cannot be independent while dependign on others to pay your bills. That is a contradiction in itself. Unfortunately, some counties like the Ukraine lie in the transition zone between "empires", where the influence of the centre fades and the the influence of the other side grows. And empires live by their own logic, that is they cannot continue to exist if allowing being challenged in their periphery without answering to that challenge and winning it. They cannot afford to let such independency movements succeed without loosing themselves in power and relevance. This contradiciton cannot be solved, and so it all to often gets settled by violence and answering the question who the stronger is. Thats not the ideal life but the real life. The map shows that 20 years ago the implied Russian argument to have claim for territories due to the Russian share in the regional population only is valid for the Crimean, but neither for Donbass nor Luhansk. Kiev on the other hand by the Minsk agreement would be obligated to give huge Russian minorities special rights and protection, but has refused to do so, if I can trust the media coverage.
__________________
If you feel nuts, consult an expert.
|
02-17-22, 06:58 AM | #651 |
Chief of the Boat
|
Shelling breaks out in east Ukraine as West and Moscow dispute troop moves.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...out&li=BBoPWjQ
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim) |
02-17-22, 07:06 AM | #652 |
Chief of the Boat
|
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says joining the Nato alliance is a guarantee of security for his country - and that he will not compromise on this.
He tells the BBC: "It's not an ambition. It's our life." Russia is opposed to Ukraine ever joining and wants guarantees that this will not happen. The US and Western allies are warning Russian forces could launch military action any day - but the Kremlin has repeatedly said there are no such plans and claims some units have been withdrawn in recent days. The world is watching for proof of Russian de-escalation - as a senior US official says contrary to this claim, a further 7,000 troops have arrived at Ukraine's borders. President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen says the EU will remain vigilant until Moscow's words are reflected on the ground. UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss, who is travelling to Ukraine, says the West should not be fooled by Russia's claims.
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim) |
02-17-22, 09:32 AM | #653 |
Rear Admiral
|
There’s the difference plain as day.
One organization has certain criteria which must be met in order for a country to receive an invitation to join a greater alliance. The other is like a spoiled child who will throw a tantrum and destroy to gain control of something which doesn’t belong to them.
__________________
Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. |
02-17-22, 10:04 AM | #654 |
Fleet Admiral
|
I haven't changed my mind on Ukraine-They shall not become a NATO member-They do not fulfill the demands at all far from it.
Markus
__________________
My little lovely female cat |
02-17-22, 10:38 AM | #655 |
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: At your mom's house...
Posts: 567
Downloads: 193
Uploads: 0
|
If true, this will be the beginning of the end for Putin. Make no mistake.
__________________
Active member of the 'Church of SH4'
|
02-17-22, 11:09 AM | #656 |
Rear Admiral
|
I have that feeling they are far from membership as well. But I do believe it is their choice and right to work towards that goal. Without interference from another because of some nostalgia for sphere’s of influence like the good old days.
__________________
Guardian of the honey and nuts Let's assume I'm right, it'll save time. |
02-17-22, 11:43 AM | #657 |
Grey Wolf
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Paris/France
Posts: 791
Downloads: 254
Uploads: 0
|
Anyway ! mapuc is right, but don't panic !
In case of Nuke war between Biden and Putine, the European aren't concerned! Look at the terrestrial globe, in fact the short way between them doesn't go through Europe...!
__________________
\"Le Triomphant\" listens you ! |
02-17-22, 12:13 PM | #658 |
Fleet Admiral
|
Latest news about Ukraine in our news.
The US Deputy Ambassador has been expelled by the Russians Russia has today submitted a new list of demands for security guarantees, which must be met if the conflict in Ukraine is to be escalated. Informs the Russian Foreign Ministry according to Reuters. The demands mean, among other things, that all arms deliveries to Ukraine must be stopped, that already delivered weapons must be returned and that the Ukrainian government must comply with the Minsk peace agreement. In addition, Russia insists that the United States withdraw its troops in Central and Eastern Europe. Markus
__________________
My little lovely female cat |
02-17-22, 12:19 PM | #659 | |
Samurai Navy
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: At your mom's house...
Posts: 567
Downloads: 193
Uploads: 0
|
Quote:
__________________
Active member of the 'Church of SH4'
|
|
02-17-22, 12:38 PM | #660 |
Fleet Admiral
|
Here' some more from another Danish online newspaper Russia stresses that the country could be forced into a military response if the United States does not meet Russian security requirements. "In the absence of US willingness to negotiate clear and legally binding guarantees for our security, Russia will be forced to respond, including through military action," it said. Not looking good at all. Markus
__________________
My little lovely female cat |
|
|