Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Reece

astvitaliy1982 said it was in his hometown so it seems for real.
@ astvitaliy1982, did you actually witness this?

I'm not saying it didn't happened-I only questioning who fired this missile.

Markus

[Reece]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I'm not saying it didn't happened-I only questioning who fired this missile.

Markus

Yes, that's what I want to know!!

Originally Posted by Reece

Who fired them? Russia I assume!

[Skybird]

The missiles should have been intercepted in midair, broke apart in midair, and the debirs than impacted on the ground like buckshot. If so, the missile may not have been targetted at that impact site within that city at all.

Thats the problem with destroying missiles in mid air. The warhead may no longer be a danger, but the debris still can cause havoc - and over a wider area than the warhead alone.

[ET2SN]

Yeah, we tend to drink more than most forums.

Maybe you should worry more about your own back yard.

EDIT- I guess this reply was for someone who has gone away.

[astvitaliy1982]

The rocket was fired at Donetsk from the territory around the city of Krasnoarmeysk (It definitely wasn't Russia that did it) The missile was aimed at the building of the State Administration of the city and was shot down by air defense weapons on approach to the target

[Skybird]

Russian propaganda with friendly assistance from the American right.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/interne...ight-rcna19392

Too bad that Trump is not in office during this war. I mean this grim and bitter war immediately would get a huge entertaining value then. And the world would get a popcorn shortage crisis.

[astvitaliy1982]

Rockstar


You know very little about the history of this conflict,
which has been going on for the ninth year. I advise you
to study this question much deeper before writing anything. And
don't join the ranks of fake analysts. Please study at least
the topic of the Minsk agreements, what is written there,
how it was implemented, why they were never implemented.
Study the emergence of the revolution in the country,
how it happened, who came to power and why Donetsk and
Lugansk did not want to be with Ukraine. If you don't want to, then please don't write nonsense

[Skybird]

Pretty mu7ch gives an overview.

https://www.dw.com/en/donetsk-and-lu...ion/a-60878068

Moscow has drastically altered ethnic realities on the ground, means by handing out almost one million Russdian passports it now claism that the bregions are predominantly "Russian".

That reminds me of the Kosoov war. At the beginning of the war against Yugoslavia, Albanians in Kosovo were a small minority only, after the war Kosovo was taken away from Yoguslavia and a huge rush of Albanians from Albania to Kosovo took place where they then formed suddenly the overwhelming majority sort time later. This new fabricated reality then was given as the post hoc excuse for tkaing Kosovo away: becasue it were the Albanians' place.

There has been just one census in the Ukraine so far, from 2001. Its data showed that both Luhansk and Donetsk at that time held no majorities for ethnic Russians. Only the Crimea, 3 in 5 people are etnic Russians.




However ethnicity and language dominantly spoken at home do not automatically translate into politically loyalties and political orientation. Most ethnic Russians and speakers of Russian language in the total Ukraine seem to overwhelmingly oppose the Russian invasion, and fight against the Russian attackers.

Heck, even Putin's generals are reported to have been surprised by Putin triggering the war without telling them, and they had warned him clearly of starting it in the days before.

Anyhow, no matter how opinions and views are distributed amongst people living in towns and villages around the country - there is no excuse for the ammount of barbarism, violence, mass killing and destructioin inflicted across the Ukraine - that did not at all threaten or attack Russia. There is no excuse for this barbarism - just the offended ego of one ultranationalistic fascist warmonger with a psychopathic- narcissistic personality disorder and paranoid delusions.

Russia hardly can lay claim on possessing the Ukraine due to history, becasue the territory of today'S Ukraine over the centuries has been part of not less than 14 different nations/kingdoms/empirtes of varying cultural orientation - the Russians having been just one amongst these. And since 2-3 centuries the Ukrainians tried time and again, despertaely to get away form Russian infoeunce and vasallship, even mroe so sicne unde rstalin they got it exyspecially badly with milliosn and milliosn beign killed due to the maneating killer regime of Stalin, resettlements, and artificially caused famines. The Ukrainians really have little reason to want to live under the Russian fist once again.

[mapuc]

The Ukraine dilemma have existed since its independents from Russia/Soviet.

Over 90% of Ukrainian citizens voted for independence, with majorities in every region, including 56% in Crimea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...e#Independence

Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Skybird

However ethnicity and language dominantly spoken at home do not automatically translate into politically loyalties and political orientation. Most ethnic Russians and speakers of Russian language in the total Ukraine seem to overwhelmingly oppose the Russian invasion, and fight against the Russian attackers.

well actually not that clear if you are just looking at this now. I actually spent a lot of time on this around 2014.

There have always been ethnic/language tensions in Ukraine since independence. The East is mostly ethnic Russians with a majority Russian language speakers and the West is mostly ethnic Ukrainians with a majority Ukrainian language speakers. The East favoured closer relations with Russia and tended to vote for more pro-Russian candidates while the West favoured closer relations with the West and tended to vote for more pro-western candidates.

The overthrow of Yanukovych and subsequent Russian takeover of Crimea and the eastern province blew those tensions wide open. Various polls both formal and informal over the years show that support in Crimea by the ethnic Russian population for annexation by Russia was very high, something like 70-80%.

The Ukrainian side has also become more intrasigeant, adopting strict language laws forcing everyone one to use Ukrainian and restricting the use of the Russian language which also creates resentment in the East.

The current narrative as written in western media is that everyone is opposed to a Russian takeover, no doubt that is true in the Ukrainian community, but if you could poll the Eastern Russian community, you would likely find a wider split. Of course, anyone who would favour joining Russia is going to stay silent until the war is over.

[mapuc]

^ Reading your comment makes me more convince that Ukraine will be divided into a West and East Ukraine.

Markus

[ET2SN]

Here's the part I don't understand..
Granted, there are more pro-Russians in the eastern cities.
Russia is bombing and shelling the eastern cities as much as the rest of Ukraine.
So, the people who live in the east favor having their cities turned into rubble?

Something doesn't add up.

[mapuc]

Reading between the lines of all the news I read I can only come to the conclusion:

We are so close to WW3 than ever before.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

well actually not that clear if you are just looking at this now. I actually spent a lot of time on this around 2014.

There have always been ethnic/language tensions in Ukraine since independence. The East is mostly ethnic Russians with a majority Russian language speakers and the West is mostly ethnic Ukrainians with a majority Ukrainian language speakers.

Then this must have changed most dramatically between 2001 and 2014, because the data from their national census from 2001 says something different. Look at the numbers in that map I posted, they are percentages. A Russian ethnic majority you only see on the Crimea pensinsula. And only there.

What are these other numbers you imply? The census from 2001 I posted for only one reason: I found no newer data. I will believe there have been mild changes since then, its been 13 years from 2001 to 2014. But turning small minorities into dominant majorities...? No way. The biggest changes you may see in Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk, because the Russians have handed out almost one million Russian passports, and also sent Russian settlers from Russia to Crimea.

The Russians also bomb cities with huge ethnic Russian communties btw. And most ethnic Russians resists to the Russian invaders, do not want them. Right that has been one of the biggest miscalculations of Putin, hasn't it!? The uprise of the Russian ethnic gorups in the Ukrian and their revolt against Kyiv, taking sides with the Russian invaders, did not take place. Exactly the opposite happened.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by astvitaliy1982

Rockstar


You know very little about the history of this conflict,
which has been going on for the ninth year. I advise you
to study this question much deeper before writing anything. And
don't join the ranks of fake analysts. Please study at least
the topic of the Minsk agreements, what is written there,
how it was implemented, why they were never implemented.
Study the emergence of the revolution in the country,
how it happened, who came to power and why Donetsk and
Lugansk did not want to be with Ukraine. If you don't want to, then please don't write nonsense

Russia has been arming separatists in the Donbas for quite sometime and a few weeks ago crossed another nations borders and invaded with soldiers, rockets missiles, armor, and aircraft. You complain and seem surprised there are rockets falling in town centers. I counter with what the hell did you expect?

You now gripe about Minsk agreements. Tell me about Minsk agreements and what part don’t you understand? And what part in it permits one nation to violate the legitimate borders of another? How many would put up with King Harald V staging his forces in Canada then send in his armed vikings to ‘liberate’ all the Norwegians in Minnesota. lol