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02-18-13, 03:04 PM | #31 |
Lucky Jack
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02-18-13, 03:07 PM | #32 |
Chief of the Boat
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I was surprised to see some sources citing the service ceiling of the U-2 as around the 55,000 feet mark but on second thoughts I think most countries announce lower values and figures to mislead those they'd rather not know
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02-18-13, 03:09 PM | #33 |
Lucky Jack
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It is one way to beat the surface to air missiles. False info! I think it is still classified.
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02-18-13, 03:14 PM | #34 |
Navy Seal
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02-18-13, 03:21 PM | #35 |
Silent Hunter
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I love the Lightning. Third Wire's "War over Europe" flight sim has the Lightning. I don't how how the real one flies, but in game it is basically a rocket, a danger (to its pilot), can't out turn or out maneuver any other fighter, but very fast. Perfect for intercepting Red bombers or getting in and out of combat quickly.
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02-18-13, 04:07 PM | #36 | |
Eternal Patrol
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Actually those aren't facts, they're claims. They are all valid and substantiated claims, but there is still a difference.
First, acceleration. The Lightning has an empty weight of 31,068 pounds and maximum thrust with AB is 32,000 lbf (foot/pound) total. The F-15 has an empty weight of 28,000 lb and a maximum thrust of 50,000 lbf. That should tell you something right there. I would have used standard takeoff weights but I coudn't find that number for the Lightning. Maximum takeoff weights are 45,750 lb (Lightning) and 68,000 lb (F-15) which means that the Eagle is the lighter aircraft with more thrust, but can carry a lot more ordinance, which is irrelevant to a discussion on performance. Quote:
The Lightning was, and is, a great aircraft, and among the fastest, but modern aircraft work toward what is most important in a dogfight, and that's maneuverability.
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02-18-13, 04:42 PM | #37 |
Lucky Jack
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Steve, how does a watch work?
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02-18-13, 04:44 PM | #38 |
Chief of the Boat
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Most likely and rightly so
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02-18-13, 04:44 PM | #39 |
Chief of the Boat
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Modesty my friend...........will get you EVERYWHERE
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02-18-13, 04:47 PM | #40 | ||
Chief of the Boat
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Pity about the crap ordnance she carried
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02-18-13, 05:11 PM | #41 | |
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Quote:
Of course you could also say that given the nature of the Cold War the Lightning was around to give Soviet Long Range Aviation something to worry about and from that stand point the Lighting did a good job.It should aslo be taken into account that of all nations that have employed missile armed interceptors there have only been a handful of combat intercepts of bombers too few to truly evaluate effectiveness. You would have to go back and look at WWII air combat to have solid enough numbers on such aircraft(in the interception role) and of course the Luftwaffe is kind of bomber interception. The F-15 on the other hand has a ratio of 105.5:0 (though supposedly an JADF F-15 shot down another JDAF F-15 by accident once and two USAF F-15Cs once collided in mind air during 4 vs. 4 training). As you say as well two different aircraft designed 20 years apart with a differing concept of role.The F-15 was originally designed to be an air superiority fighter(or killing the enemies ability to control air space namely killing fighter aircraft).The F-15 of course can strictly intercept of course but at the time of its design another aircraft the F-106 had this specific duty.Being an air superiority fighter the F-15 needs it agility in both speed and maneuverability.The F-15 has an unfair advantage as well because it used missiles that had over 95% reliability so when an F-15 fires a missile the odds are very high that another aircraft is about to become scrap."F-15 leading supplier of MiG spare parts" The Lighting on the other hand was designed to intercept bombers and therefore only needed agility in the area of speed and namely climbing it did not need to dog fight. The Lighting has the advantage of being the best looking 2nd generation jet fighter and is easily the second best looking British designed jet fighter(Hawker Hunter is number 1) and that is easily worth 20,000 points. Last edited by Stealhead; 02-18-13 at 05:31 PM. |
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02-18-13, 06:14 PM | #42 |
Fleet Admiral
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@Jim
Do you know if the Lightning had the same/similar rolling problem that the MiG-21 has? I read that MiG-21 pilots had to be really careful when they rolled or they could start an uncontrolable roll
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02-18-13, 06:16 PM | #43 |
Silent Hunter
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Its not really fair to compare the Lightning with the F-15 since they are a generation apart.
If you compare the Lightning with others airplanes of its generation, i.e. Mig-17,-19,-21 or F-100,-104,-4, Mirage III, it fares better. It had equal or better performance/radar than its contemporaries. Only the F-4 would be a superior all around fighter.
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02-18-13, 07:25 PM | #44 | |||
Eternal Patrol
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02-18-13, 08:09 PM | #45 | |||
Fleet Admiral
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Mediocre acceleration and climb eh? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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