Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Bravo for the idiots, AND quoting Russia today.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/def-con-news-bias/

The About of this site states it all

[Skybird]

Russian politics have never been about caring for the people, this is what Western analysts finally have to understand. IKts about the peope at thje top of the food chain securing power and plundering the country. Westenr sanctions do not change this, and Wetsern sanctions do not stop Russia making war in the ukraine.

You can ridicule the Russian economy as much as you want, from a Western POV these clever arguments may make sense, in contextx that form the thinking world of the West academics. In Russia, they simply do not matter. GET USED TO THAT.

That website's nature is of secondary relevance only, and these days I see in germany journalists and politicians being called Nazis just because they refuse to use gender speak. What did the website in Rockstar's quote say?

• The trust in Western banking institutions has been crushed;
• The SWIFT system as a reliable source of economic order is at its all-time low;
• Local currencies are replacing the U.S. dollar at the speed of light;
• 85% of the global population is refusing to sanction Russia;
• Russia itself is swimming in money from the skyrocketing energy prices; and
• President Putin has never been more popular, trusted by over 8o% of the Russian population, according to VTSIOM, many of whom complain that he should have attacked Ukraine much earlier. Even oligarchs who formerly hated Putin and strongly opposed him domestically now love him.

Europe also used to love Putin, to the extent that when the green energy ideology first made Europe shut down its own energy resources without having an energy substitute, Europe was happy to leave its fate in the hands of Russian oil and gas.
Remember, in September 2018 President Trump warned the German delegation at the U.N. General Assembly against becoming totally dependent on Russian energy?




No point in that is wrong. The trust in banks is eroding, though not just due to Russia, but already before. SWIFT is in rough waters due to its obvious use for manipulating global politics (no comment on whether it is ethically justfied or not, I just state the fact). Local currencies are being pushed indeed, since years, with varying success, but Russia and China try to dump dollars, and have done so, and Russia buys gold like crazy, still. India tries to steer free of the Euros and Dollars regime, too, they just do not make a big show of it. Indeed countries representing over 80% of the planets population refuse to join the West in its attempt to mobilise support against Russia. Russia has made more profit with energy sales in the last six months than in the full year 2021. Putin and the war is popular in Russia: the war since it is not the population in the city seing the coffins coming home, Putin sicne the media ciontor, and censorship is compeote and the the rural places' population only know what state media tell them, and the civil reosstence in the cities is massively overestimated ion the Western media, since many years. Putin always has been more popular with Russians that we Westerners wanted to realise. What Trump saiod about Germany and Russia and the energy dpeendency obviously is true as well.

The Western position on Russia is a minority position, there is no doubt on that. China, Russia and India are influential enough to prevent more. We live in the time when the strongest anti-Western block ever forms up. Much of Asia, much of Africa, much of Latin America refuse the Western claim for lead role, the motives are varying but do not matter here.

So, the website in question may have this or that reputation: it does not matter. What is said in this one link given is what counts: and there is little in it I could argue with. Nothing, to be precise. The time when the G7 formed a majority of the global economic power, is over, these days it is a faction that does not even represent half of the globe's total economic power,. but clearly less. It has lost tremendously in power over the past 20 years.

[Skybird]

Part of the new warfare Russia wages against the West - since many years, and against Europe and America alike. FCOUS writes:
---------------------
AfD shares manipulated Baerbock video - detail exposes Kremlin propaganda

Foreign Minister Baerbock is facing criticism following a panel discussion. Videos are circulating on social networks showing alleged statements by Baerbock, which subsequently caused a stir. But now it comes out: the sentences Baerbock have not fallen so, the videos were manipulated.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock (Greens) came under fire after a panel discussion in Prague because she had pledged her support for Ukraine - regardless of the opinion of her electorate in Germany. Baerbock was subsequently accused of treason for allegedly favoring the Ukrainian population over her own. On Twitter, #BaerbockRuecktritt was one of the most used hashtags in Germany on Thursday. However, a Russian disinformation campaign is apparently behind the video.

In the viral video, the German foreign minister explains her stance on sanctions against Russia as well as support for Ukraine. For example, Baerbock says that she will "stand by the Ukrainians as long as they need it" - and that she also wants to keep her promise, "no matter what my German voters say." Furthermore, Baerbock states that she will not stop the sanctions in the winter, even if the Germans demonstrate because of high energy bills.

Calls for Baerbock's resignation

The AfD in particular made a fuss about Baerbock's statement. AfD leader Alice Weidel, for example, wrote on Twitter, "The resignation of the foreign minister is overdue. Anyone who explicitly whistles on the interests of voters in Germany no longer has any business in a ministerial office." In general, the entire traffic light coalition is "deliberately working against the people in our country," Weidel said.

Harsh criticism also came from other parties: left-wing politician Sevim Dagdelen wrote on Twitter of Baerbock's alleged: "Ukraine first, citizens no matter contempt." Sahra Wagenknecht of the Left Party, called Baerbock a "danger to our country" on Twitter. Baerbock was equally criticized by CDU politicians.

Russian disinformation campaign

However, according to "Spiegel" research, a Russian disinformation campaign is said to be behind the video: The short excerpt was first posted by accounts close to the Kremlin and edited together to distort the meaning. Accounts close to the Kremlin or partly state-run Russian actors are said to have started the campaign by abbreviated quotes and to have fueled it again and again, according to an analysis of the "Disinformation Situation Center", which is available to "Der Spiegel".

Accounts close to the Kremlin are said to have disseminated doctored video

The first quote from the event was allegedly posted on Telegram by state news agency Ria Novosti, according to Der Spiegel. Four minutes later, the quote was again doctored and posted by a Telegram channel belonging to state media Sputnik, it said.

Four hours later, the Telegram channel "Russian American Daily" allegedly showed the edited video, "Spiegel" writes. The members of the channel had already been interrogated by the FBI in the past on suspicion of spying for Russia, "Spiegel" added. The channel frequently posts propaganda about the war in Ukraine and is said to have a proximity to the Kremlin.

With distorted words such as "will put Ukraine first, no matter what German voters think," the video was distributed. The words "in the first place" do not even appear in Baerbock's speech. Smaller, anonymous accounts are said to have subsequently redistributed the video in German, according to Der Spiegel.

Weidel shares Baerbock video - watermark exposes Kremlin propaganda

Weidel was one of the first to share the video. Explosive: the video contained a watermark of the "Russian American Daily" channel. It was clicked 140,000 times on Weidel's Facebook profile alone, and another 115,000 times on the official AfD account on Facebook. Here, too, the video was used with the watermark of the account close to the Kremlin. Other AfD politicians shared the video and also called for Baerbock's resignation.

German media translated quotes incorrectly

In addition, German media partially translated Baerbock's English sentences incorrectly. "Die Welt," for example, published an article with the headline, "Government stands by Ukraine, no matter what German voters think." In the video, however, Baerbock speaks exclusively of her electorate, the Green voters. According to "Spiegel," the "Welt" article was shared thousands of times, and only after hours was the headline corrected.

No deepfake video

It is true that the video and audio material was not manipulated with the help of software. However, Baerbock's statements were edited in such a way that the content of what was said was distorted. The foreign minister did indeed utter the sentences that appear in the short version, but relevant statements were omitted. A 2 minute and 13 second speech ultimately became a 54 second video.

For example, Baerbock says on the panel that fortunately in democracy there is the possibility that her constituents will punish her if they see it differently. She also talks about the need for all of Europe to find good solutions to balance the social effects of Russia's war of aggression and the energy crisis.

Greens popular target for Russian disinformation campaigns

Felix Kartte, an expert at Reset, an initiative that promotes digital democracy, told Der Spiegel, "It was to be expected that Russian disinformation would target top Green officials in particular." Already during the Bundestag election campaign, he said, the Greens, and among them chancellor candidate Baerbock in particular, had been a popular target of disinformation campaigns.

-----------------

[Jimbuna]

The economic impact of the war in Ukraine is tough on its allies, the country's first lady has told the BBC, but as Britons "count pennies", Ukrainians "count casualties".

Olena Zelenska told Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that if support for Ukraine was strong the crisis would be shorter.

In an interview recorded in Kyiv, she also said it was important to keep highlighting the human toll of the war.

And Mrs Zelenska said while she rarely saw her husband, they talk every day.

The first lady, who has been married to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky since 2003, spoke to the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg in Kyiv.

In a wide-ranging interview to be broadcast on Sunday 4 September, Mrs Zelenska was asked what message she had for British people who are facing soaring energy bills in part due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the impact that has had on global gas and oil prices.

"I understand the situation is very tough. But let me recall that at the time of the Covid-19 epidemic, and it's still with us, when there were price hikes, Ukraine was affected as well.

"The prices are going up in Ukraine as well. But in addition our people get killed.

"So when you start counting pennies on your bank account or in your pocket, we do the same and count our casualties," she said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62766917

[mapuc]

On the bottom line it's all about standpoints and belief.

I choose to believe what I hear coming from UA-forces and not so much what comes from Russia.

It could be false or exaggerated information I get from different source I follow-Cause I really don't know what's going on, on the frontline in Ukraine.

Some of my friends are convince Russia has success all over the frontline-As one said-If you knew what I have been told by the Russians on VK.

It made me sad-I want it to be untrue, however it may be true-I don't know-I just want Ukraine to win the war.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Mobilized residents of Donbas are deserting en masse from "army of DPR", - Kazansky. PHOTOS

In occupied Donetsk, Rashists are posting announcements about the search for deserters who refused to fight in the "army of the DNR".

As Censor.NET informs, this was reported by journalist Denys Kazansky on Facebook.

"There are such announcements all over Donetsk. Mobilized residents of Donbas are deserting en masse from the "army of the DPR" and do not want to go to a senseless death for the sake of Putin's crazy fantasies," the report says. Source: https://censor.net/en/p3365025

[Rockstar]

Another source of intel https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love

[Jimbuna]

[Otto Harkaman]

Russian submarine Severodvinsk
Naval News has seen strong indications that a Russian attack submarine (SSN) or cruise missile submarine (SSGN) is operating near Italy.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...mediterranean/

Russia’s most powerful submarine equipped with cruise missiles reached the Mediterranean Sea after leaving Ukraine war, know the purpose
This submarine of the Russian Navy is standing at the entrance of NATO countries off the coast of Italy. In such a situation, there has been an increased concern for NATO countries to guard their maritime border more than the Ukraine war.
https://www.newsdayexpress.com/world...w-the-purpose/



Interesting where the US carriers are located

[Catfish]

re Skybird, russian propaganda and AfD in Germany

Now democracy being the lesser evil of government systems, why isn't there some inbuilt self-preservation, like making groups illegal by law that try to overthrow the constitution, and even have that written in their party program.
In Germany this means the AfD as well as Die Linke.
On one hand it is of course convenient to have all the suspects at one place to have an overview of known troublemakers, on the other hand their influence and world view may spread like a wildfire, certain preconditions provided.
So if a majority democratically suddenly removes the current system by a final act and votes for someone like Hitler, this would be perfectly ok and there is no way back to democracy without a revolution, or a lost war..

Even with a majority content with the current system and circumstances, if they are just too lazy to counter such groups in time they will just let it happen. Add foreign help to these groups, like from Russia (as it is just happening now) they become a direct and physical threat.


In this case Russia uses its usual program like disinformation, concocted history, false flag operations and so on, but on steroids:
Now even RT (Russia today), TASS and all those others flooding the internet do not only condemn their perceived enemies' behaviour, but spread contradictory statements, now even within one broadcast. Russia has advanced, but Russia has retreated. Scholtz is a Nazi, Scholtz is good to Russia. They use a bit of real fact and spin a complete package of nonsense around it.
And people fall for it, you can even see this in this forum.

This is in a way how Trump did it, though i am not sure his "statements" were a strategy or not rather simple incompetence and lack of understanding.
The russian approach is to destabilize any opinion and facts until people think they cannot trust anything anymore, so the strongmen offering simple explanations and solutions become accepted, and even loved.

This is all simple enough to understand, but shouldn't the free countries and their various coalitions try to counter this?

[Skybird]

Yeah, sure. How deep Putinomics are already inside people's brains shows the Us politics thread. The demagogic comparisons made there recently have no more mental sanity in them, are as abstrus as it gets. The internet media play into extremists' hands.

Russia wages allout war against the West on several levels, economically, media, diplomatic bribery to win support by bystanding countries, assassinations.


Still, opposition to Putin in Russia never was as strong or widespread as western media paint it as. Just yesterday the BND said they have zero indications for an imminent loss of control by Putin, too. Since years we get told that Russia is economically close to collapse.

Lets face it, thd sanctions are simply irrelevant for Putin determination to have this war. Winter is an old ally of Russia at war. In the coming months western mood over Ukraine will dramatically change. He knows that.

[Catfish]

^ and remember that after North Stream II has not been opened, and N. Stream I been completely closed now, Putin will close the "rest" of 85 percent gas and oil (coming from Russia through those other pipelines) too, probably in mid-winter.
Who could have possibly foreseen this?

re my post, how do you think one can counter Russia's disinformation and destabilization strategy?

I heard that the EU intends to install counter measures against propaganda, i just wonder how they want to do this. Information and facts only work if people are willing to look at it.
Censoring or shutting down propagandas sites, well – cutting RT (Russia today) already had Die Linke almost on the barricades already. And of course that is censorship. Cries just of all the AfD who will be the first to shut down any critical media the second it comes to power.
If you think people are bright enough to see through RT's most obvious nonsense you may be in for a surprise.
Let alone better thought-out influencing.

[Catfish]

Not sure what to make of this, but it sounds reasonable enough, and maybe not propaganda .. :

https://www.russia-briefing.com/news...llapsing.html/

PPP is the point. We know it was not a good idea to switch a country's industry to the service sector alone. As long as money is being printed and paid for no real equivalent value it works for a "short" (10-20 years or so) time, but then the money being paid for services has to come from somewhere again.

So e.g. Thatcher's decision to mow down industrial capacities and cut each others' hair instead has led to major empoverishment, now even more than before. We know the difference between poor and rich in the UK is based and obviously accepted together with the class society, but what about the rest of Europe?
Russia does have the resources. If it ever properly develops its economy and infrastructure together with proper education, it indeed will be a world power.

[Jimbuna]

Russia sets 'deadline' to end war as MoD declares 'highly unlikely' it will achieve goals

The news comes as Ukrainian defence forces take steps to recapture occupied towns and cities in the eastern region of the country, with particular focus on Kherson which was taken by Moscow in the early stages of the war six months ago. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky has thanked his forces for taking two settlements in the south and a third, along with additional territory, in the east, citing "good reports" from his military commanders and intelligence head as the mission to push back against Vladimir Putin's forces continues.

The latest MoD report states the Donbas region remains Putin's top priority in the conflict, hoping any gains would be seen as a victory in the process.

Intelligence released by the MoD said: "Despite its effects to contain recent Ukrainian offensive action, Russia's main effort in Ukraine almost certainly remains its Donbas offensive operation. Its principal axes of advance in the Donbas remain at Avdiivka near Donetsk City and, 60km to the north, around Bakhmut.

"Although Russia has had the most success in this sector, its forces have still only been advancing around 1km per week towards Bakhmut."

The report continued by highlighting the unlikely reality of the goal being achieved.

"The political goal of the Donbas operation almost certainly remains to secure the whole of Donetsk Oblast, which would enable the Kremlin to announce the 'liberation' of the Donbas.

"Russian forces have highly likely repeatedly missed deadlines to achieve this aim.

"The Ukrainian authorities have claimed that Russian forces are now under orders to complete this mission by 15 September 2022.

"The force is highly unlikely to achieve this, which will further complicate Russia's plans to run referendums on the occupied areas joining the Russian Federation."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...out&li=AAnZ9Ug