Re: Putting SH3, on a diet...

Mad Mardigan · 11-17-21, 08:31 AM

Been thinking on this subject... & am really... interested, in knowing...

Is it possible to put SH3 (stock, to begin with...) on a diet, of non needed files & folders... to facilitate the feasibility of being able to use say... mods that improve the interiors better, additional ships, (better designed with better damage models, different skins... NOT to fail to mention, ensuring that the ships in it, as well as add on ships mods, have factual, actual used ships included in the rosters & convoy's) & the improvement of Wilhelmshaven, Lorient (namely, proper base locations) & other bases used by the Uboats during the war, that had dock locks such as Wilhelmshaven did.

Am thinking, that 1 area to start would be with the single missions section... & the museum (2ndly).. to begin with... & any other stuff NOT deemed needed for SH3 to run.

Thoughts... idea's... suggestions...

M. M.

kyle9154 · 11-17-21, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Been thinking on this subject... & am really... interested, in knowing...

Is it possible to put SH3 (stock, to begin with...) on a diet, of non needed files & folders... to facilitate the feasibility of being able to use say... mods that improve the interiors better, additional ships, (better designed with better damage models, different skins... NOT to fail to mention, ensuring that the ships in it, as well as add on ships mods, have factual, actual used ships included in the rosters & convoy's) & the improvement of Wilhelmshaven, Lorient (namely, proper base locations) & other bases used by the Uboats during the war, that had dock locks such as Wilhelmshaven did.

Am thinking, that 1 area to start would be with the single missions section... & the museum (2ndly).. to begin with... & any other stuff NOT deemed needed for SH3 to run.

Thoughts... idea's... suggestions...

M. M.

I'm interested on the subject as well, it would be worth doing as a whole new project to have a sort of SH3 GWX Lite compilation mod where all the unnecessary files and non pertinent files are removed as long as it doesn't affect the operation of the game to load up. Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet...why? all that memory for ships just to look at and never fire at, things like that which are not needed in the game, or giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter. Just to free up memory for better ideal stuff to be added, also english voice language files when all we use is the german voice files, unnecessary flags and .tga files etc. etc. etc.

Mister_M · 11-17-21, 09:26 AM

That's my wish too. I've already changed the roster and the DefSide.cfg, only keeping nations actively involved in the war. This requires to check the campaign files to remove all units from undesired nations.... The size of the campaign files are directly linked to the time of a patrol/mission loading.

It would be also a good idea to assign specific files to specific war theatres. For example, if you're playing patrols in the Atlantic, it's useless to have ships scripted in the Mediterranean, and vice-versa. There are perl scripts to adjust campaign files (made by LGN1 IIRC).

Also, the files in the Library and Textures folders should be kept at minimum size as possible.

For more memory space, it's also possible to totally disable the interior view (side effect : no more orders are heard).

In the end, the idea is to only keep the best for a stable and well made game, a kind of improved vanilla. Then, why not add mods to it, depending on your tastes and where you are playing (Mid-Atlantic, Arctic, Med) and when (Happy time, Drumbeat, 1943 new campaign... like the SH5 system), thanks to a modular mods system...

kapuhy · 11-17-21, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle9154

Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet...why?

I guess the plan is more or less:

1) Add entire Italian fleet
2) Add playable British sub based in Malta
3) Profit!

John Pancoast · 11-17-21, 10:07 AM

More or less how my installs already are vs. solely one megamod or another, though I use parts of them.

Start from stock, and add what one desires. Some of my favorite campaigns are 8k, i.e.

But full interiors, ships, subs, etc. are going to eat up memory.
I.e., I could care less how a sub looks from the outside view. I use DD's old interior mod mainly because it handles the helmsmen better. I could care less about walking the entire sub length. I don't care about harbors. Other similar choices.

In other words, one has to decide what is more important; stability, faster loading times, reliable saves, etc. or something else, whether that's graphics or whatever.

It can be very difficult to have both in the game.
Regarding the damage model, I'd be happy if someone could change it to get rid of that silly ability to know your flak gun, etc. is damaged when you're submerged. Chlorine gas when the batteries are damaged would be good too.

Jeff-Groves · 11-17-21, 10:47 AM

Write a program to scan all files and remove SHD_ stuff and DynamicShadows controllers and your a long way to slimming down the Game as far as total size.

That would also free up ID's which are a constant threat to Game stability.
One duplicate ID in the wrong place and POOF! CTD!

In a pretty much basic GWX 3 install you have 122,881 ID's.
GWR, not sure which version, has 168,561.
Onealex has 165,635.
Stock SH3 has 82,261.

You have a potential 2,147,483,647 ID's available based on a 32 bit ID.
The odds are slim you'd hit a used ID but it can and has happened MANY times!

VonDos · 11-17-21, 12:11 PM

Hi!

As Jeff-Groves stated, ID are the large part of problem, if you want to optimize an SH3 installation. SHD parts are useless also, if you aren't interested in shadows.

Also, there are a lot of 3d parts who are repeated: sometimes, for example, you can have an ocean liner with 10+ identical lifeboats, and every lifeboats has an identical 3d model. 10 models and 10 id, who can be reduced to one.

Good luck for your mod (or mod idea).
Optimize, go radical, skin the beast.
I'll download and test your final version.

If she'll be ok, i'll install the italian entire fleet on top of it

(seriously, my favourite campaign is the mediterranean one, and the med camp without italian units it's so... meh...)

Best regards,
Vd

PS: "Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet [...] giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter." Well, maybe not everyone, but i'm glad someone like the italian units. Btw, i guess should be easier to meet a random ww2 italian torpedo boat \ corvette \ destroyer in the Med than an Iowa into the Atlantic Ocean..

kyle9154 · 11-17-21, 12:24 PM

If she'll be ok, i'll install the italian entire fleet on top of it

(seriously, my favourite campaign is the mediterranean one, and the med camp without italian units it's so... meh...)

Best regards,
Vd

PS: "Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet [...] giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter." Well, maybe not everyone, but i'm glad someone like the italian units. Btw, i guess should be easier to meet a random ww2 italian torpedo boat \ corvette \ destroyer in the Med than an Iowa into the Atlantic Ocean..

[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean no disrespect to your mod of course Von Dos as you do lovely work, but yeah its not my cup of tea. The only ships i personally want to add is escorts and lots more merchant types and Onealex megamod, along with MFM 3.3 lite (onealex version) does the trick for me.

VonDos · 11-17-21, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle9154

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonDos

If she'll be ok, i'll install the italian entire fleet on top of it

(seriously, my favourite campaign is the mediterranean one, and the med camp without italian units it's so... meh...)

Best regards,
Vd

PS: "Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet [...] giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter." Well, maybe not everyone, but i'm glad someone like the italian units. Btw, i guess should be easier to meet a random ww2 italian torpedo boat \ corvette \ destroyer in the Med than an Iowa into the Atlantic Ocean..

I didn't mean no disrespect to your mod of course Von Dos as you do lovely work, but yeah its not my cup of tea. The only ships i personally want to add is escorts and lots more merchant types and Onealex megamod, along with MFM 3.3 lite (onealex version) does the trick for me.

Hi mate!
I honestly didn't think you were disrespecting my mods

and i seriously encourage you, everyone, to keep up the work on this idea.
My latest units has a lot of optimized parts, but every time i work on a new ship, i realize i can save memory, for example, adding a plane, or a liferats, or a lifeboats into a library file and link it into the .eqp of every ship, instead add the same model in every ship. But this is a work i can do only in the end, for now i've optimized a lot, in my opinion. This for say "there's always something that can be improved". If you create an installation "light", will be more easy for me add everyting i want on top of her. And this is good, for sure. And is valid for everyone.
Maybe i can be interested in italian warfare, others in pacific sccenario, others in baltic only. Diversity is wealth for me, always

So, again, keep up the good work, everyone

Best regards,
Vd

Mad Mardigan · 12-05-21, 07:32 AM

Ahoy...

Just a bit of a... status update.

To date, have taken just the base SH3... & put it on a diet.

Went through & found doc's... that on inspection, were not related to SH3 in playing. (Testbedded it on culling those out & it booted up, just fine.

) which, was good news indeed.

Took it to stage 2... in the sounds dept., culled out en voices... & on culling them... test bed launched it... & as before... booted up... & seemed to do so, a lot faster.

Am now looking to further put it on a diet... with the text confirm messages & such... (for Me, that would translate down to the de or german text files & such in that category...

wanting to keep the en or english side of that part... as I don't read german.

though I do enjoy hearing orders given in it, though.) such as when giving an order of say... speed 1/3 ahead... but, could use a bit of... a spot light on where to look for that, exactly... so, any info on that... thanks.

M. M.

John Pancoast · 12-05-21, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Ahoy...

Just a bit of a... status update.

To date, have taken just the base SH3... & put it on a diet.

Went through & found doc's... that on inspection, were not related to SH3 in playing. (Testbedded it on culling those out & it booted up, just fine.

) which, was good news indeed.

Took it to stage 2... in the sounds dept., culled out en voices... & on culling them... test bed launched it... & as before... booted up... & seemed to do so, a lot faster.

Am now looking to further put it on a diet... with the text confirm messages & such... (for Me, that would translate down to the de or german text files & such in that category...

wanting to keep the en or english side of that part... as I don't read german.

though I do enjoy hearing orders given in it, though.) such as when giving an order of say... speed 1/3 ahead... but, could use a bit of... a spot light on where to look for that, exactly... so, any info on that... thanks.

M. M.

The console text messages are found in the de, en, etc. text files found in data\menu. Fwiw, text files don't much matter for anything.
Number and kind of units in the game/campaign files are what can really bloat things up loading time - wise, etc., among other things.

Jeff-Groves · 12-05-21, 04:22 PM

I believe if you want English text messages with German speech you'd just rename the English text files to de_menu.txt de_help.txt

Jeff-Groves · 12-05-21, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Number and kind of units in the game/campaign files are what can really bloat things up loading time - wise, etc., among other things.

Right.
So if you cut the English speech files and only use the German files?
You save space on your hard drive but it really shouldn't even be reading those files. The fastest way to have the Game load is with an SSD drive.

Mad Mardigan · 12-05-21, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

The console text messages are found in the de, en, etc. text files found in data\menu. Fwiw, text files don't much matter for anything.
Number and kind of units in the game/campaign files are what can really bloat things up loading time - wise, etc., among other things.

Yeah.. can understand that... for the most part... dinking about with slap dash putting together a 3d model & such of that nature... I will openly admit... is not My forte.

Now, bring it down to figuring out, about editing in notepad or what's that other one... yeah, word... & I'm pretty good at that. Not a wizard or genius, but... I can do a pretty good job, of holding My own.

Jeff-Groves, Von Dos &... think it was Mister M... brought up a few good salient points... when it comes down to it... along with My idea on putting SH3 on a diet on the base point side of it.

M. M.

Mad Mardigan · 12-05-21, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Right.
So if you cut the English speech files and only use the German files?
You save space on your hard drive but it really shouldn't even be reading those files. The fastest way to have the Game load is with an SSD drive.

Maybe... but to be frank, am not 100% sure just what goes on fully, when the whole shebangs booting up... what's the expression... every bit, helps... & thus far, did manage to cull quite a bit of dross out of the stock version thus fat...

erhm, far.

Am looking at trimming what fat I can see of on what I am comfortable with... documenting that... & then see of what can be done to trim the fat in other areas that others such as yourself, Jeff... & others like Von Dos... and others too numerous to name them all... who deserve a lot of credit for what they bring to the table... can contribute to that end... & still have it be viably playable.

(Not to forget those, who have gone on eternal patrol...

)

M. M.

11-17-21, 08:31 AM	#1
Mad Mardigan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 2,327 Downloads: 491 Uploads: 0	Re: Putting SH3, on a diet... Been thinking on this subject... & am really... interested, in knowing... Is it possible to put SH3 (stock, to begin with...) on a diet, of non needed files & folders... to facilitate the feasibility of being able to use say... mods that improve the interiors better, additional ships, (better designed with better damage models, different skins... NOT to fail to mention, ensuring that the ships in it, as well as add on ships mods, have factual, actual used ships included in the rosters & convoy's) & the improvement of Wilhelmshaven, Lorient (namely, proper base locations) & other bases used by the Uboats during the war, that had dock locks such as Wilhelmshaven did. Am thinking, that 1 area to start would be with the single missions section... & the museum (2ndly).. to begin with... & any other stuff NOT deemed needed for SH3 to run. Thoughts... idea's... suggestions... M. M. __________________

11-17-21, 10:07 AM	#5
John Pancoast Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minnysoda Posts: 3,183 Downloads: 490 Uploads: 4	More or less how my installs already are vs. solely one megamod or another, though I use parts of them. Start from stock, and add what one desires. Some of my favorite campaigns are 8k, i.e. But full interiors, ships, subs, etc. are going to eat up memory. I.e., I could care less how a sub looks from the outside view. I use DD's old interior mod mainly because it handles the helmsmen better. I could care less about walking the entire sub length. I don't care about harbors. Other similar choices. In other words, one has to decide what is more important; stability, faster loading times, reliable saves, etc. or something else, whether that's graphics or whatever. It can be very difficult to have both in the game. Regarding the damage model, I'd be happy if someone could change it to get rid of that silly ability to know your flak gun, etc. is damaged when you're submerged. Chlorine gas when the batteries are damaged would be good too. __________________ "Realistic" is not always GAME-GOOD." - Wave Skipper Last edited by John Pancoast; 11-17-21 at 10:33 AM.

11-17-21, 10:47 AM	#6
Jeff-Groves Village Idiot Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,319 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Write a program to scan all files and remove SHD_ stuff and DynamicShadows controllers and your a long way to slimming down the Game as far as total size. That would also free up ID's which are a constant threat to Game stability. One duplicate ID in the wrong place and POOF! CTD! In a pretty much basic GWX 3 install you have 122,881 ID's. GWR, not sure which version, has 168,561. Onealex has 165,635. Stock SH3 has 82,261. You have a potential 2,147,483,647 ID's available based on a 32 bit ID. The odds are slim you'd hit a used ID but it can and has happened MANY times! __________________ I don't do Stupid. So don't ask. Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 11-17-21 at 11:30 AM.

11-17-21, 12:11 PM	#7
VonDos Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 2,216 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 49	Hi! As Jeff-Groves stated, ID are the large part of problem, if you want to optimize an SH3 installation. SHD parts are useless also, if you aren't interested in shadows. Also, there are a lot of 3d parts who are repeated: sometimes, for example, you can have an ocean liner with 10+ identical lifeboats, and every lifeboats has an identical 3d model. 10 models and 10 id, who can be reduced to one. Good luck for your mod (or mod idea). Optimize, go radical, skin the beast. I'll download and test your final version. If she'll be ok, i'll install the italian entire fleet on top of it (seriously, my favourite campaign is the mediterranean one, and the med camp without italian units it's so... meh...) Best regards, Vd PS: "Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet [...] giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter." Well, maybe not everyone, but i'm glad someone like the italian units. Btw, i guess should be easier to meet a random ww2 italian torpedo boat \ corvette \ destroyer in the Med than an Iowa into the Atlantic Ocean.. __________________ Those, others and WIP ships are avaiable in my SHIPYARD here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=136508

11-17-21, 12:24 PM	#8
kyle9154 Commander Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia THE HUB OF ALL CONVOYS Posts: 461 Downloads: 368 Uploads: 0	If she'll be ok, i'll install the italian entire fleet on top of it (seriously, my favourite campaign is the mediterranean one, and the med camp without italian units it's so... meh...) Best regards, Vd PS: "Everyone wants to add an entire Italian fleet [...] giving every ship model to all nations rosters when some nations are never at war or you'll never encounter." Well, maybe not everyone, but i'm glad someone like the italian units. Btw, i guess should be easier to meet a random ww2 italian torpedo boat \ corvette \ destroyer in the Med than an Iowa into the Atlantic Ocean.. [/QUOTE] I didn't mean no disrespect to your mod of course Von Dos as you do lovely work, but yeah its not my cup of tea. The only ships i personally want to add is escorts and lots more merchant types and Onealex megamod, along with MFM 3.3 lite (onealex version) does the trick for me. __________________ U-Boote sind die Wölfe auf See...Angreifen...Reißen...Sinken!!! U-boats are the wolves at sea...Attack...Tear...Sink!!! - Karl Doenitz Admin for the Onealex Mod Discord - https://discord.gg/bKCdQekE4W https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSpRvfqFYp0&t

11-17-21, 09:26 AM	#3
Mister_M Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 792 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	That's my wish too. I've already changed the roster and the DefSide.cfg, only keeping nations actively involved in the war. This requires to check the campaign files to remove all units from undesired nations.... The size of the campaign files are directly linked to the time of a patrol/mission loading. It would be also a good idea to assign specific files to specific war theatres. For example, if you're playing patrols in the Atlantic, it's useless to have ships scripted in the Mediterranean, and vice-versa. There are perl scripts to adjust campaign files (made by LGN1 IIRC). Also, the files in the Library and Textures folders should be kept at minimum size as possible. For more memory space, it's also possible to totally disable the interior view (side effect : no more orders are heard). In the end, the idea is to only keep the best for a stable and well made game, a kind of improved vanilla. Then, why not add mods to it, depending on your tastes and where you are playing (Mid-Atlantic, Arctic, Med) and when (Happy time, Drumbeat, 1943 new campaign... like the SH5 system), thanks to a modular mods system...

12-05-21, 07:32 AM	#10
Mad Mardigan Admiral Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Grand Rapids, Mi. Posts: 2,327 Downloads: 491 Uploads: 0	Re: Report... Ahoy... Just a bit of a... status update. To date, have taken just the base SH3... & put it on a diet. Went through & found doc's... that on inspection, were not related to SH3 in playing. (Testbedded it on culling those out & it booted up, just fine. ) which, was good news indeed. Took it to stage 2... in the sounds dept., culled out en voices... & on culling them... test bed launched it... & as before... booted up... & seemed to do so, a lot faster. Am now looking to further put it on a diet... with the text confirm messages & such... (for Me, that would translate down to the de or german text files & such in that category... wanting to keep the en or english side of that part... as I don't read german. though I do enjoy hearing orders given in it, though.) such as when giving an order of say... speed 1/3 ahead... but, could use a bit of... a spot light on where to look for that, exactly... so, any info on that... thanks. M. M. __________________

12-05-21, 04:22 PM	#12
Jeff-Groves Village Idiot Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,319 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	I believe if you want English text messages with German speech you'd just rename the English text files to de_menu.txt de_help.txt __________________ I don't do Stupid. So don't ask.