[REQ] U-Boat Damage in SH5 - Needs Major Work

[vonTorpitz]

Where to begin. Well then, first we must look to a subsim damage model that actually worked. The u-boat damage model (ie. enemy damage to the u boat from depth charges and air sorties) in SH3 and SH4 was great and it worked to create a major element of suspense and realism. If the British depth charged your boat and the charge exploded near the front of the boat, you could expect damage to the forward torpedo room systems, and overall flooding in the forward compartments. If one exploded above your boat, you could expect conning tower damage and/or flooding and perhaps a ruined attack periscope. Nice system indeed. Very smart.
So its shocking that Ubisoft decided to make a departure from the reasonably accurate and detailed u-boat damage model they had employed in their previous releases, especially when considering its flawed replacement. Id like to list the glaring failures of the current model in light of its predecessors, but I simply don't want to get into a list that long and detailed and I'm sure anyone who has been depth charged in SH5 knows my misery on this issue. Its a show-stopper at this point. It completely removes any illusion of reality in SH5. It effectively neuters the game and, by extension, the whole genre. Ive been able to deal with most of the other bugs and inconsistencies in the design of this game as of yet, but the current damage system in my opinion, takes the cake, so to speak. I haven't seen many threads yet on this issue and its an issue that perhaps, needs the most attention. Or at least some serious discussion.

Danke und Sieg!

vonTorpitz

[t0maz]

I dont use external camera so its impossible for me to check where DC's expload but when i was trying avaiod charges using ahead flank when destroyer was direct over me. DC's destroyed some things mainly in stern compartments (diesel and electric engines) so it seems to work for me.
But im not 100% sure because of lack of external camera.

Im using u-boat killer mod v1.02 ( http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165886 ) witch have some modifications of DC's damage radius to feel how close explosion was (and to have some more realistic fun with destroyers).

[Sgtmonkeynads]

I've been ran over by DD's while at periscope level with my scope fully up. The damage suffered is nothing, so I don't even worry about DD's seeing me any more. Plus all you gotta do is dive to 70-80 meters and your safe, like your not being attacked at all. The only thing you gotta watch now is your air level and batteries. I've suffocated twice.

To me, and this is my opinion only, if I was to get ran over like I did, it should rip the deckgun off, as well as damgeing the conning tower to the extent you can't use scopes at all. Or I should just die.

[Gandalfi2005]

There are Mods out there wich affect damage modificators from Depth Charges. And then you got damage from DC and they can damage your sub extremly.
For example use RUB Sensor Mod or Haramirs Sensor Mod

[vonTorpitz]

I currently have Haramirs Sensor Mod as well as Haramirs Escorts Self-Awareness Mod enabled. It seems to me that Haramirs mods work great and have vastly improved the challenge in my game. However, its not the enemy AI or sensor ranges that I have an issue with. The issue at hand lies in what happens once the enemy attacks you and scores. For the most part I have either been unscathed or annihilated, this really makes the whole ships compartments damage model and the whole repair function essentially a waste of time. Why worry about it if you either get away or sink every time its 50/50. I'm not sure if Haramirs mods address this issue although I may be wrong. Either way I still think it needs work and fine tuning.

[stoneys-nutz]

Originally Posted by vonTorpitz

Where to begin. Well then, first we must look to a subsim damage model that actually worked. The u-boat damage model (ie. enemy damage to the u boat from depth charges and air sorties) in SH3 and SH4 was great and it worked to create a major element of suspense and realism. If the British depth charged your boat and the charge exploded near the front of the boat, you could expect damage to the forward torpedo room systems, and overall flooding in the forward compartments. If one exploded above your boat, you could expect conning tower damage and/or flooding and perhaps a ruined attack periscope. Nice system indeed. Very smart.
So its shocking that Ubisoft decided to make a departure from the reasonably accurate and detailed u-boat damage model they had employed in their previous releases, especially when considering its flawed replacement. Id like to list the glaring failures of the current model in light of its predecessors, but I simply dont want to get into a list that long and detailed and Im sure anyone who has been depth charged in SH5 knows my misery on this issue. Its a show-stopper at this point. It completely removes any illusion of reality in SH5, and effectively neuters the game and, by extension, the whole genre at this point. Ive been able to deal with most of the other bugs and inconsistencies in the design of this game as of yet, but the current damage system in my opinion, takes the cake, so to speak. I havent seen many threads yet on this issue and its an issue that perhaps, needs the most attention. Or at least, at this point, some serious discussion.

Danke und Sieg!

vonTorpitz

Hello vonTorpitz,
You are absolutely correct, the damage model is indeed flawed, i was rammed by a destroyer, the destroyer sank and the Uboat had no damage, not even a bent periscope, i don't think it even took any paint off the hull, all systems were showing 100%. Very disappointing.

[flymar]

I've never been successfully depthcharged in SH5. Mostly my sub is destroyed by merchant fire or destroyer ramming. This whole HP stuff makes me sick. There is great damage model in SH3+GWX or SH4+RFB (I preffer SH3 with little pump icons and exact time of flooding/repairs). I spend much time in both of these trying to get the boat from uncontrolled dive or lying at the bottom, trying to pump out the water with destroyers pinging above my head and that was something. Lack of real crew management in SHV makes it lot less immersive either.

[oscar19681]

I agree the damage model has taken a huge step backwards when compared with sh-3 and 4 . It just an immersion killer really.

[Cap.Palla]

I noticed that there is no visible damage on the uboat too! I'd like to see the dark alone of the explosion on my skull or much better some cracks on it. Do you think its possible for modders?

[Demonizer]

I found a quick solution, if you open up the sub with goblin and its .zon file u can change the hitpoints to a lowervalue which weirdly gives you a hull integrity of like 2500% but if you lower the value of the armour to like 1-3 internal systems get munched up but your hull can still be fairly intact which stopps the annoying blackout when u reach 0%..

I just had a 1v1 with a destoryer and he really chewed me up i had massive damage to systems and some heavy flooding but i still had to battle as my hull intergrity was still alround 900% ...

[toby66]

Originally Posted by Cap.Palla

I noticed that there is no visible damage on the uboat too! I'd like to see the dark alone of the explosion on my skull or much better some cracks on it. Do you think its possible for modders?

Bugs me too, especially since that was possible in SHIII! I just loved to come home to my port with a beaten boat, all dark marks on it, but still alive!

[Hartmann]

The problem is the new game philosophy more RPG and less simulator
less realism and more arcade features, with this way the simplified a lot the time needed to do a good sim.

[Cap.Palla]

Please modders....work on this very important aspect of the game

[flymar]

Originally Posted by Demonizer

I found a quick solution, if you open up the sub with goblin and its .zon file u can change the hitpoints to a lowervalue which weirdly gives you a hull integrity of like 2500% but if you lower the value of the armour to like 1-3 internal systems get munched up but your hull can still be fairly intact which stopps the annoying blackout when u reach 0%..

I just had a 1v1 with a destoryer and he really chewed me up i had massive damage to systems and some heavy flooding but i still had to battle as my hull intergrity was still alround 900% ...

Interesting. Do the floading starts and eventually sinks the boat? I wonder if there is something like equipment destruction or 'damage beyond repair' in SH5.

[Kromus]

Originally Posted by Demonizer

I found a quick solution, if you open up the sub with goblin and its .zon file u can change the hitpoints to a lowervalue which weirdly gives you a hull integrity of like 2500% but if you lower the value of the armour to like 1-3 internal systems get munched up but your hull can still be fairly intact which stopps the annoying blackout when u reach 0%..

I just had a 1v1 with a destoryer and he really chewed me up i had massive damage to systems and some heavy flooding but i still had to battle as my hull intergrity was still alround 900% ...

Thx for this info, I`ve got no ide why they gave sub plate of 10 cm thickness (if I did understand it right 2,8 cm was planned for VIIC/42)... Anyway this works nicely depth charges finally do some damage.