GER politics thread - Page 13

ikalugin · 03-25-17, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Are you trying to be sarcastic/ironic?
Because there is a rather big hacker/trolling activity, Kremlin controlled and fueled, so... Yeah, evil russian hackers indeed.

I am, I would like to see the evidence behind any such politically convenient accusations. The materials I have seen presented regarding the DNC story:
- either do not have evidence regarding attibution, only conclusions (such as joint statements)
- or say that the agencies investigating got their evidence from private company hired by the DNC (recent hearings)
But then I am salty/paranoid of everything I did not see with my two eyes.

To be honest, after the year-zero leaks I think that CIA/NSA hack into German elections is about as if not more likely.

ikalugin · 03-25-17, 09:42 AM

As an honest full disclosure of my personal views and thus the narrative I present here. There are several parts to it.

First of all I believe that an entity is not guilty unless proven to as a fact (with due process and such). Thus in this way it is irrelevant as to if the crime was or was not commited, only if it was proven to have been commited.

Secondly I do understand the relevant established views on this broad topic and form my personal opinion on the materials I have seen (note the difference between opinions and facts).

In my personal view what is happening is projection, projection of capabilities and intent. As is it apparent from open western materials (such as the recent leaks) the US system is a proffesional, well organised, well controlled instrument.

This is projected onto Russian state affiliated actors (where Russian actors are indeed reponsible, as cyber attribution is more or less impossible), in that they are well organised and well controlled and thus a non authorised action is unlikely.

To me it appears that the contrary is closer to reality - that Russian actors exist in a quasi-feudal relationship with their individual benefactors in the relevant LE, which causes some embaracing conflicts (such as the recent arrest of the FSB officer who was running "Shaltai-Boltai" group, responsible for leaking Medvedev's emails). Thus even if an attack can be attributed to a specific actor, affiliated with the Russian state, it doesnt mean that Russian state as an institution, or the Russian NCA authorised or were even aware of such attacks.

Catfish · 03-25-17, 01:58 PM

True. I think after the Stuxnet attack staged by Israel and the US all think that all is possible, without having real intelligence or evidence.

On the other hand if the possibility exists it is most likely that this kind of cyber war is being used, by all. Just logical deduction.

Skybird · 03-26-17, 07:21 AM

State elections in the Saarland today:

http://www.dw.com/en/merkel-gets-ear...oll/a-38036904

Skybird · 03-26-17, 03:00 PM

A bit surprisingly the Merkel party won almost 6% to their last result, while the SPD lost 1 or 2 points. Greens are out, AfD stays in.

http://www.dw.com/en/saarland-state-...ear/a-38125722

And this is the so-called "honest" result, which calculates the non-voters ("Nichtwähler", in grey) into the official final results:

Before the national elections in some months, there will come state parliamentary elections in Schleswig-Holstein and Northrhine-Westphalia.

Skybird · 03-27-17, 04:00 PM

Not politics, but still an odd curiosity of history:

http://www.dw.com/en/125-years-of-ma...any/a-16188583

I heard some foreign politicians would like to have a label "Made not in Germany"

Jimbuna · 03-27-17, 04:21 PM

Typical....copying us Brits again

Good choice though

Catfish · 04-02-17, 03:06 PM

"The act aimed to ensure that all foreign products - which could potentially threaten the success of British merchandise - were branded with a label. It was an attempt to prompt British buyers to "buy British." Each trading nation that wanted to do business in Great Britain had to label its products with their country of origin."

That went really well, did it?

OT Did someone recently spot Oberon? Did not read anything from him lately

Hope all is well.

04-02-17, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

OT Did someone recently spot Oberon? Did not read anything from him lately

Hope all is well.

Well, you know what they say about Unkraut.

Jimbuna · 04-03-17, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

OT Did someone recently spot Oberon? Did not read anything from him lately

Hope all is well.

Nothing from him since 29th March on FB

Skybird · 04-03-17, 04:53 PM

http://www.dw.com/en/new-book-reveal...sis/a-38268542

I mentioned it before.

However, I pick another reading next, in some days the German translation of Jason Brennan: Against Democracy is released in Germany. I expect to agree with his analysis and diagnosis, but I am wondering whether he has a more realisticc, more convincing alternative model to offer than Hans-Herrmann Hoppe (who also filed in the correct analysis and diagnosis, but fell victim a bit to naivety with the alternative he was offering).

04-03-17, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Well, you know what they say about Unkraut.

Last Activity: 03-14-2017 05:42 AM

Ok, that's a little atypical for him indeed, maybe there is reason to worry?

Skybird · 04-11-17, 03:32 PM

No good deed remains unavenged.

http://www.dw.com/en/germans-wanting...tcy/a-38385732

Catfish · 04-12-17, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

No good deed remains unavenged. [...]

This is why we (tapping own shoulder) are the shining example of the whole world, and all have to follow us on our way to .. to .. whatever

Skybird · 04-12-17, 06:12 AM

^Nothing compares to the Berlin airport...

03-25-17, 09:42 AM	#182
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	As an honest full disclosure of my personal views and thus the narrative I present here. There are several parts to it. First of all I believe that an entity is not guilty unless proven to as a fact (with due process and such). Thus in this way it is irrelevant as to if the crime was or was not commited, only if it was proven to have been commited. Secondly I do understand the relevant established views on this broad topic and form my personal opinion on the materials I have seen (note the difference between opinions and facts). In my personal view what is happening is projection, projection of capabilities and intent. As is it apparent from open western materials (such as the recent leaks) the US system is a proffesional, well organised, well controlled instrument. This is projected onto Russian state affiliated actors (where Russian actors are indeed reponsible, as cyber attribution is more or less impossible), in that they are well organised and well controlled and thus a non authorised action is unlikely. To me it appears that the contrary is closer to reality - that Russian actors exist in a quasi-feudal relationship with their individual benefactors in the relevant LE, which causes some embaracing conflicts (such as the recent arrest of the FSB officer who was running "Shaltai-Boltai" group, responsible for leaking Medvedev's emails). Thus even if an attack can be attributed to a specific actor, affiliated with the Russian state, it doesnt mean that Russian state as an institution, or the Russian NCA authorised or were even aware of such attacks. __________________ Grumpy as always.

03-25-17, 01:58 PM	#183
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	True. I think after the Stuxnet attack staged by Israel and the US all think that all is possible, without having real intelligence or evidence. On the other hand if the possibility exists it is most likely that this kind of cyber war is being used, by all. Just logical deduction. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

03-26-17, 07:21 AM	#184
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	State elections in the Saarland today: http://www.dw.com/en/merkel-gets-ear...oll/a-38036904 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-26-17, 03:00 PM	#185
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	A bit surprisingly the Merkel party won almost 6% to their last result, while the SPD lost 1 or 2 points. Greens are out, AfD stays in. http://www.dw.com/en/saarland-state-...ear/a-38125722 And this is the so-called "honest" result, which calculates the non-voters ("Nichtwähler", in grey) into the official final results: Before the national elections in some months, there will come state parliamentary elections in Schleswig-Holstein and Northrhine-Westphalia. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 03-26-17 at 03:12 PM.

03-27-17, 04:00 PM	#186
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Not politics, but still an odd curiosity of history: http://www.dw.com/en/125-years-of-ma...any/a-16188583 I heard some foreign politicians would like to have a label "Made not in Germany" __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-27-17, 04:21 PM	#187
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,175 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Typical....copying us Brits again Good choice though __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

04-02-17, 03:06 PM	#188
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	"The act aimed to ensure that all foreign products - which could potentially threaten the success of British merchandise - were branded with a label. It was an attempt to prompt British buyers to "buy British." Each trading nation that wanted to do business in Great Britain had to label its products with their country of origin." That went really well, did it? OT Did someone recently spot Oberon? Did not read anything from him lately Hope all is well. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

04-03-17, 04:53 PM	#191
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	http://www.dw.com/en/new-book-reveal...sis/a-38268542 I mentioned it before. However, I pick another reading next, in some days the German translation of Jason Brennan: Against Democracy is released in Germany. I expect to agree with his analysis and diagnosis, but I am wondering whether he has a more realisticc, more convincing alternative model to offer than Hans-Herrmann Hoppe (who also filed in the correct analysis and diagnosis, but fell victim a bit to naivety with the alternative he was offering). __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-11-17, 03:32 PM	#193
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	No good deed remains unavenged. http://www.dw.com/en/germans-wanting...tcy/a-38385732 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-12-17, 06:12 AM	#195
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	^Nothing compares to the Berlin airport... __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.