[REL] Playable U-FlaK for SH5

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

EDIT
I think that the solution is somewhere in between crewidle.aix and upcge files...Don't invest too much time in this issue though, I think that really is not worth it ...

Do you mean the solution to wrong crew being displayed?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

EDIT 2
Why I cant edit bones rotation even with your editor version? Usual right click on bone to edit just wont work in case of bones rotation??

Your question revealead a possible cause for the flipped gunner! Though apparently facing the right direction, fron gunner's bone had position data (flag: 1) but not rotation data. All other bones of the same type have both position and rotation data (flag: 3).

I have corrected the error now, and renamed the bone to its old name (WP_A02_GUN). Please download the latest version of my tweaks on the conning tower file, and use it as it is. Should the gunner be still flipped, try rotating the bone. This time GR2 Editor should let you to do so.

[vdr1981]

Do you mean the solution to wrong crew being displayed?

Yeah, check my previous post...

Your question revealead a possible cause for the flipped gunner! Though apparently facing the right direction, fron gunner's bone had position data (flag: 1) but not rotation data. All other bones of the same type have both position and rotation data (flag: 3).
I have corrected the error now, and renamed the bone to its old name (WP_A02_GUN). Please download the latest version of my tweaks on the conning tower file, and use it as it is. Should the gunner be still flipped, try rotating the bone. This time GR2 Editor should let you to do so.

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Nope...I think I'll just leave bone rotation jobs for you Gap...

Come on lazy man you managed doing that and you cannot rotate a small point?!!

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Anyway, I've forced one deck gun crewman to sits correctly on Quad's seat, using few changes in mentioned aix files...Dont ask me how yet ...

Holy crap, I am sorry but I must ask: how did you manage doing that?

Make sure that while you fix U-flak's gunners you don't mess up other conning towers!

[vdr1981]

Well ok, but this is just a testing...
The script for deck gun crew was like this...

strategy SQ_BED01_Manning_deck_gun(wp)
{
	precond
	{
		Wp:IsGunManned(SLOT_M01)
	}
	action
	{
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("object2_book01", 0);
		Wp:PlayAnimationAndWait( "SQ_BED01_leave_rush" );
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Hat01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Torso05", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Torso07", 0);
		Wp:Teleport("WP_DECK_GUN");
		Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_M01, "88mm_L_R", ROLE_TRAV);
		Wp:ScriptCompleted();

..and I changed it to this...

strategy SQ_BED01_Manning_deck_gun(wp)
{
	precond
	{
		Wp:IsGunManned(SLOT_A01)
	}
	action
	{
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("object2_book01", 0);
		Wp:PlayAnimationAndWait( "SQ_BED01_leave_rush" );
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Hat01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Torso05", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Torso07", 0);
		Wp:Teleport("WP_A01_GUN");
		Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "Vierling_UP_DW", ROLE_TRAV);
		Wp:ScriptCompleted();

The result is one dude sitting correctly on his ass...Now deckgun crew is probably screwed but if manage somehow to add new script...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Well ok, but this is just a testing...
The script for deck gun crew was like this...

Which file?

Any fresh news on my latest tweaks? Do you still need me to rotate that *******g bone?

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

Which file?

Any fresh news on my latest tweaks? Do you still need me to rotate that *******g bone?

Ignore my previous post, it was this tweak...

was this...

strategy QRF_PETTY01_Manning_A01gun(wp)
{
	precond
	{
		Wp:IsGunManned(SLOT_A01)
	}
	action
	{
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Hat01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Pants01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Pants02", 0);

		
		Wp:PlayAnimationAndWait( "QRF_Petty01_leave_rush" );
		Wp:Teleport("WP_A01_GUN");
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C30) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C30_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C30_2) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C30_2_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C38_Twin) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C38_twin_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C38_Twin_Shield) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C38_shield_twin_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		Wp:ScriptCompleted();

and I've added appropriately one more line taken from WP_FLAK_ GUN script...

strategy QRF_PETTY01_Manning_A01gun(wp)
{
	precond
	{
		Wp:IsGunManned(SLOT_A01)
	}
	action
	{
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Hat01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Pants01", 1); 
		Wp:SetBodyPartVisibility("A_Pants02", 0);

		
		Wp:PlayAnimationAndWait( "QRF_Petty01_leave_rush" );
		Wp:Teleport("WP_A01_GUN");
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_Vierling) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "Vierling_UP_DW", ROLE_ELEV)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C30) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C30_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C30_2) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C30_2_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C38_Twin) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C38_twin_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		if (Wp:GetGunType(SLOT_A01) == CANNON_20mm_C38_Twin_Shield) then
			Wp:ManTheGun(SLOT_A01, "20mm_C38_shield_twin_UP_DW", ROLE_GUNNER)
		endif;
		Wp:ScriptCompleted();

Note that A01 light gunner in type VIIC for example is not broken also...

[vdr1981]

Bad news regarding front A02 gunner...I've managed somehow to rotate WPA02GUN bone (not correctly though, about 60deg) but still, flipped gunner is on exactly the same place...

[vdr1981]

Slightly better but still that front gunner is dumb or something...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Bad news regarding front A02 gunner...I've managed somehow to rotate WPA02GUN bone (not correctly though, about 60deg) but still, flipped gunner is on exactly the same place...

So if you rename/remove WP_A02_GUN, the gunner disappears, but bone rotation has no effect on gunner's rotation? That's black magic

P.S: Have you tried using my file first without rotating the bone?

P.S.2: Try and move around that bone and see if its position has any effect on gunner's position.

P.S-3: I start thinking that that bone might be broken somehow. Try rotating one of the other bones; if their gunners rotate accordingly, scrap the front gunner bone, duplicate one of the other ones for replacing the former.

P.S-4: Is it possible that the two gunners in A1 and A2 must be facing the same direction, A1 taking the precedence? If nothing of the above works, try switching A1 and A2 bone names and see what happens...

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by gap

So if you rename/remove WP_A02_GUN, the gunner disappears, but bone rotation has no effect on gunner's rotation? That's black magic

P.S: have you tried using my file first without rotating the bone?

Yes, it's the same, but again, maybe you should verify that...

Hmm, maybe fornt gunners will sit correctly if I use deck gun crew, after all, the deck gun is orientated to front side , unlike any other flak in game...

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Ignore my previous post, it was this tweak...

was this...

Crew_Idle_Actions_QR1.aix?

Originally Posted by vdr1981

strategy QRF_PETTY01_Manning_A01gun(wp)
{
	precond
	{
		Wp:IsGunManned(SLOT_A01)

I see here guns are designed by their name and slot as set in GunStationControllerProperties. Is is possible that you change those A01 and A02 controller settings ocpying the values from the corresponding controller in S01? Would that break player's and/or AI ability to operate those guns?

[gap]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Yes, it's the same, but again, maybe you should verify that...

Hmm, maybe fornt gunners will sit correctly if I use deck gun crew, after all, the deck gun is orientated to front side , unlike any other flak in game...

yep, that's a possibility, but deck gun manning crew looks nothing like heavy Flak gunners

[gap]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...Flak_Traps.22:

"Two 20 mm quadruple Flakvierling mounts and an experimental 37 mm automatic gun were installed on the U-flaks' decks. A battery of 86 mm line-carrying anti-aircraft rockets was tested (similar to a device used by the British in the defense of airfields), but this idea proved unworkable. At times, two additional single 20 mm guns were also mounted."



No way we can do this in SH5; I will be happy enough if we manage solving the remaining issues with the current gun layout.

By the way: I couldn't find any useful information on this "experimental 37 mm automatic gun" mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Judging from the few photos of an U-Flak available on the web, it had to look more like an SK C/30U than else, though the latter gun was only semi-automatic (additional information on it found on navweaps.com)


Side view of U-441's conning tower after her refitting as a "Flak trap". 37 mm gun on the left.


The 37 mm SK C/30U Flak gun as fitted on U-103.

My impression is confirmed by a drawing of U-441's conning tower I found on the web, though I ignore its original source:



Going back to the game, I have noticed you have picked the SK C/30 as standard stern gun, and this is in conformity with the information I have gathered above. Should you feel that for gameplay reasons we need to make provisions for a gun upgrade, I could create a clone of the SK C/30 to be used as an upgrade, giving it an higher rate of fire compatible with the one of an automatic gun of the time. I am afraid that the other 37 mm Flak available in game, (i.e. the Flak M42, more info on it on navweaps), though being an automatic gun since it entered service, wouldn't be a realistic option, as it became available only in 1944.

As for bow and wintergarten guns, imo we should leave the two quad 20 mm Flaks as the only possible option, available from U-boat issue. Adding the weight of one or two 37 mm guns forward, would have made U-Flak's maneuverability even clumsier than it already was, not to mention the fact that we haven't managed making two 37mm guns player-operable on the same boat yet.

[Cybermat47]

I agree about the types of flak, gap, that 37mm definitely looks like the earlier 'reload after every shot' type.

If possible, the player should be able to choose what type of flak guns they have while in the bunker, but I think the default loadout should be based on the photos we have available.

EDIT: By the way, vdr, just a minor thing, but I think that in-game, it should be spelt only with a capital 'U', i.e. 'U-flak', rather than 'U-FlaK', as 'fliegerabwehrkanone', from what I've seen, is all one word. Just a trivial thing, but I felt it should be adressed.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I agree about the types of flak, gap, that 37mm definitely looks like the earlier 'reload after every shot' type.

Definitely. The only piece of information that is confusing me is that quote from Wikipedia about the "experimental 37 mm automatic gun". It might have been a modification of the SK C/30U but so far I couldn't find any information on it, and it wouldn't be the first time a Wiki article reports wrong information. I will check some books later today, just to be sure.

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

If possible, the player should be able to choose what type of flak guns they have while in the bunker, but I think the default loadout should be based on the photos we have available.

I agree. The only problem is that the standard gun equipment as seen in photos and stated by various sources, was already the top possible at the time for an U-boat. Any upgrade in game would be either totally unrealistic or a "downgrade" actually. The only idea I can think of, is the replacement of the stern gun with a slightly improved one, mimicing this (so far) mythical "experimental" 37 mm Flak mentioned by Wikipedia.