Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Discussion on providing Western aircraft to Ukraine has already begun, - Politico

According to the diplomatic sources of the Politico publication, the discussion about providing Western fighter jets to Ukraine in the future has already begun.

As reported by Censor.NET with reference to European Pravda, this is stated in the Politico article dated January 26.

Conversations with more than a dozen Western officials - diplomats and military - testify that the internal discussion about planes for Ukraine has already begun; the issue is actively lobbied by Ukraine itself and the Baltic states. One of the interlocutors from the countries of Northern Europe also noted that fighters "would be a natural next step" after the Allies decided to provide tanks.

The debate is expected to be even more difficult than the one surrounding the tanks, due to fears of escalation.

According to one of the interlocutors, in Washington, they say that there is no question of fighter jets at this time. "This is a red line. But last summer, the "red line" was HIMARS, but in the end, it shifted. Then it was tanks - and it shifted," he noted.

Another interlocutor from Europe drew attention to the speed with which decisions regarding heavier weapons have recently begun to be made. In his opinion, although right now the idea of providing Ukraine with fighter jets seems impossible, after some time they can start talking about it quite seriously.

It is believed that aviation will be the focus of attention at the next meeting of the Contact Group on Defense of Ukraine (Ramstein format), scheduled for February. According to the interlocutors of the publication, it may be about some tentative plan in case Ukraine will critically need planes at a certain moment.

It will be recalled that the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands, Wopke Hoekstra, said last week that the Netherlands has "no taboo" on discussing the request for the F-16 if it came from Ukraine, and the Slovak government directly talked about plans to give Soviet MiG-29s to Ukraine.

At the same time, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz categorically rejects the idea of providing military aircraft to Ukraine.

European capitals already believe that the war can drag on for another 3-5 years or even longer and that the West has almost reached the limit when it can provide Ukraine with some types of weapons without provoking Russia to a radical escalation. In addition, there are fears that in the event of this escalation, public support for aid to Ukraine within Western countries would be shaken.

According to one of the European diplomats, the newspaper writes, as early as 2022, the Western allies agreed to start giving Ukraine more serious support with weapons in stages and to assess the situation each time - because otherwise "they would provoke a harsh reaction from Russia", up to the use of nuclear weapons. "You can call it the (Putin's) process of getting used to it," the interlocutor notes. Therefore, a year after the first ATGMs, a decision has already been made about tanks. In his opinion, about fighters, "the question is only when."

Interlocutors of the publication in Europe agree that the West first wants to exhaust all, except for fighter jets, types of assistance that have not yet been provided and will be useful - such as strike drones and longer-range missiles.

But there are signs that the USA is already preparing to provide aircraft to Ukraine in the future - yes, in the summer the House of Representatives approved a $100 million project for the training of Ukrainian pilots, and in October a message was received from Ukraine that a group of pilots had already been selected to master Western fighter jets.

Mastering Western fighter jets will also be a challenge for Ukraine for logistical reasons - from technical features and maintenance to the fact that they require long runways, and it would be relatively easy for Russia to spot the deployment of adapted bases and strike them. Among the experts, there are opinions that Ukraine would be better suited to the F-18 or Gripen - but there are quite a few of them. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395817

[Jimbuna]

Scholz excludes deliveries of combat aircraft to Ukraine: "Position has not changed and will not change"

The German government has not changed its position regarding the impossibility of transferring combat aircraft to Ukraine.

This was stated by Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Censor.NET reports with reference to DW.

According to him, Germany will in no case transfer combat aircraft to Ukraine.

"This position (regarding the impossibility of transferring combat aircraft. - Ed.) has absolutely not changed and will not change," AFP quotes Scholz.

The German chancellor also confirmed that "there will be no direct participation of the NATO military in the war in Ukraine" and that, for example, the deployment of ground troops is out of the question.

"Everyone can count on it," Scholz assured. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395822

Blow to Odesa is Putin’s response to inclusion of city in UNESCO World Heritage List, - Kuleba

The rocket attack on Odesa is Putin’s response to the inclusion of the city in the UNESCO World Heritage List.

The head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Dmytro Kuleba, reported this on Twitter, Censor.NET reports.

"Among the targets of today's massive missile strike, Russia struck Odesa, which led to massive power outages.
This destruction is Putin's response to UNESCO's inclusion of Odesa in the World Heritage List yesterday and placing it under the enhanced protection of the List of World Heritage in Danger," the message reads.

Also remind, that it was previously reported that the historical center of the port city of Odesa was included in the UNESCO World Heritage List. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395829

[Skybird]

Berlin says Ukraine will get the German Leopards early April.
London says the British Challengers should arrive end of March.

[Skybird]

https://www.nzz.ch/international/kam...&_x_tr_sl=auto

Developments in Poland are particularly painful for the German tank industry. Over the past twenty years, the country has purchased more than 200 Leopard 2s from Germany. After the Russian annexation of Crimea, German-Polish relations deteriorated. The government in Warsaw accused Berlin of pursuing a policy toward Moscow that was far too uncritical. Germany was seen by Poland as an increasingly insecure cantonist, including when it came to arms purchases. In July 2021, Defense Minister Mariusz Blazczak announced plans to buy 250 new and 116 used M1 Abrams main battle tanks from the United States for a total price of 8.85 billion euros. Last summer, Poland also agreed to buy 1000 K-2 main battle tanks in South Korea. The manufacturer will build a plant in Poland for this purpose. German industry had also bid for the contract, but came away empty-handed.

Poland is now buying tanks from the USA and South Korea. This is also politically painful for Germany because one thing has become clear with the Polish decisions: Germany, its neighbor, is no longer a strategic, trustworthy partner. It is now the distant USA and the even more distant South Korea.

Representatives of defense companies, who wish to remain anonymous, report that the Americans are offering countries that could supply Leopard 2s to Ukraine used tanks as replacements from their own inventory and a long-term industrial partnership. Any country that took up the American offer would be hard for the German tank industry to win back. Moreover, Berlin's influence in armaments policy would also decline.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Parts of the German press are celebrating Scholz for his "tank coup," as they call it here, and want this to be understood as far-sighted "leadership."

I am not so sure.

There are credible reports that the Americans were pissed off that Germany publicly embarrassed them by making such demands to Biden (our tanks only if you send yours, and this after America already has delivered more military equipment and heavy weapons, artillery, than all Europe together), as if little Germany could command Washington or snub it in such a way. Besides, the Americans have always said they don't want to supply Ukraine with anything they can't maintain and technically "afford" in the long run. And the Abrams consumes, in transport volume, a fifth - minimum - more of its different from other armored vehicles fuel than the Leopard - and consumes its fuel at movement/operation rates even when just idling. And from the Ukrainian field operation it is admitted, differently than from the policy, that the logistic supply chains of the Ukraine groan now already under the multiplicity at supplied different systems from the west.
Now it is reported what I already suspected and also indicated: that the US tanks will be delivered only at the end of 2023 or even in 2024. So they will not play a role so soon.

I believe that the Germans have not scored a coup here, but that one of two completely different possibilities applies:

Either the Americans have taken a swipe at Scholz and said, "You see, we've been able to formulate tricky phrases as cleverly as you with your twisted phrases for a long time,

Or they have built a bridge for the Germans for the sake of the greater cause, to move face-saving out of the trap into which they have maneuvered themselves with their advanced demands.

For this year the Abrams will not play a role on any front or battlefield. If they ever (have to) come at all.

The German argument, one must keep the Americans "in the boat" to benefit form protection boni so that Russia does not go only on Germany, if Putin because of the Leopards over-snaps, I do not believe, because the supplied US artillery has already inflicted more damage and destruction on the Russian troops, than the tanks ever could any time soon. There the small Olaf constructed himself again an strawman for himself, so that he must not feel so alone and abandoned.

Two Leopard battalions are now to be formed: one based on the 2A6, and one based on the 2A4.

The Ukrainian logiostc network and engioneers will not hav to deal already now, this year, with the Abrams. I have no doubt they can learn in record time how to maintain the Abams. The question is not about intellectual capacity, but quantity in maintenance and logistc capacities. The logistics networks in the Ukraine are already strained, and are getting even more challenged with several new system arriving - all needing their own knowledge base and more important: their own spare part delivery chain.

Think the Netherlands played a big role here in the background as bridgehead for the US to present this as an offer Germany could not refuse think Ukraine can easily adapt to these material they have no other choice see how quick they adopted to the HIMARs and other NATO material Ukraine army has become more veteran than the whole NATO in short time also NATO has never fought successfully an enemy of this order

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Canada to provide Ukraine with four Leopard-2 tanks

Canadian Defense Minister Anita Anand announces supply of four Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine.

It was informed by Censor.NЕТ with a reference to Interfax-Ukraine.

Canada will provide spare parts and ammunition, as well as train the Ukrainian military in the use of tanks. Anand also does not rule out additional supplies of Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine.

In total, Canada has 112 tanks of this model in service. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395978

Western tanks will be reinforced by Ukrainian artillery: Reznikov shows off Bohdana self-propelled artillery system. PHOTOS

Ministry of Defense financed production of national artillery systems in the spring of 2022. Therefore, Western tanks that Ukraine will receive from its allies will be supported at front by Ukrainian artillery

This was announced by the Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov, informs Censor.NЕТ.

The minister noted that the Ukrainian 155-mm Bohdana self-propelled artillery system had successfully passed tests on the battlefield. The Ministry of Defense financed the new artillery systems in the spring of 2022. "The Western-made tanks that will arrive in a few months will be supported at the front by Ukrainian artillery in every sense of the word," he emphasized.

"The Ministry of Defense did not advertise it, but over the past year we have not stopped purchasing weapons from national manufacturers. Wherever possible, within our competence, we facilitated deployment to new locations and increased capacity.

Similarly, last year, after a critical period when a significant amount of resources was spent on imports of defense-related items, the Ministry of Defense prepared a transition so that in 2023 the maximum amount of funds would be allocated to Ukrainian producers. This applies to all components - from uniforms, shoes, body armor and UAVs to heavy weapons and ammunition," Reznikov wrote on Facebook.

According to Reznikov, Ukraine should be as independent as possible in all components of defense, wherever possible.

"This makes our country a desirable partner and strengthens our position. That is why the Ministry of Defense will step up its efforts to stimulate Ukrainian producers," explained the Defense Ministry official.

"We will soon present the first results of our UAV movement," the minister promised. Source: https://censor.net/en/p3395972

Occupants massively burn their dead in mobile crematoria without even identifying bodies - Malyar

Russian army is actively using mobile crematoria, and its command does not even identify and record those dead Russian soldiers.

It was informed by Censor.NЕТ referring to Deputy Minister of Defense Hanna Malyar.

"In particular, in the rear of the occupiers' forward positions, there is a constant movement of about five such crematoria. Cremations are carried out without any identification and accounting of the bodies of the deceased occupants," Malyar notes.

Malyar is convinced that in this way the Russian command conceals the huge losses of personnel and continues to apply the traditional Russian practice of depriving bereaved families of benefits and compensation advertised by Russian propaganda. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395981

[Jimbuna]

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

There is an underlying issue with the supply of the Abrams, Challenger and Leopard tanks. The tanks all use Sabot rounds with a depleted Uranium core. Russia is apparently aware of this type of armament and has stated that if the Ukraine's use this round, they will have been the first to use nuclear armament. These tanks can all fire other rounds although not as effectively as the Uranium core rounds.

This is a " slippery slope " and possibly opens the door to the proliferation of nuclear weapons use in the Ukraine by Russia. Although these rounds are not on the same level as using tactical nuclear weapons, Uranium core tank rounds will result in the escalation of this war-possibly beyond the combatants ability to contain it. Russia's dictator " Putrid " is just looking for an excuse to use Tactical Nuclear Weapons. Utilizing these Uranium core tank rounds on the battlefield will give Putrid that excuse and justification. I think the political costs of using these tank rounds will be and are too much.

Further, it will take the Ukraine's some time to learn the intricacies of these tanks and their respective systems. Russia is playing for time for a major offensive in the coming months. The Ukraine's can do the same.


https://www.orau.org/health-physics-...netrators.html

[THE_MASK]

Depleted uranium rounds are much denser than steel rounds . Thats why they use them . The problem is when they explode they leave Uranium 238 everywhere . Its a small amount but remember the only safe ionizing radiation is no ionizing radiation .

[Skybird]

The Leopards could fire the DU rounds, because the Abrams uses the German tan cannon L55 in license. But the German army does not use these rounds, but instead a conventional round with Wolfram and/or Tungsten (I am not certain at the moment) core. Russia uses steel rods because of the costs, it has such a big tank army and must provide them with so many rounds that they would not afford to equip them all with DU rounds. Even more so since they do not expect their tanks to live long.

What Western tanks can do to Russian T-Tanks, both Gulf wars has demonstrated. Even Bradleys took out T-72 at times - without using TOWs, only their 25mm cannon. That thing can crack a T-72 if getting it from the right angle and at the right area.

Russia plays the intimidation game again. It wants the Western tanks not playing one of their trump cards - superior penetrating fire power. Next they will demand that the Western tanks shall not fight at night. And a speed limit in reverse, please, can Moscow get that too, please?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Further, it will take the Ukraine's some time to learn the intricacies of these tanks and their respective systems. Russia is playing for time for a major offensive in the coming months. The Ukraine's can do the same.

Learning to drive, watch from and fire with the Leopard will be demonstrated to be easier than one now thinks, I am sure. If you can handle firefights with a thing like an almost blind and deaf T-72, then tanking with Leopards and Abrams is luxury. The gunner's job especially is much easier, allows to fire much faster. The commander has superior overview over the battle situation even if not being interconnected digitally but needing to use his own sights, of which Western tanks offer more options than Russian tanks. And tactical leadership - I assume the Ukrainians by now know their tanking 101, can probably teach lessons to everybody in the West. Nobody has as much experience with tank battling now, like they have. I would be surprised if they pork that part of it up: manouver tactics.

[Dargo]

A brief history of Russian red lines:

• Javelins = red line
• Artillery = red line
• HIMARS = red line
• Tanks = red line
• *you are here*
• Long-range weapons = red line

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the supply of long-range weapons to Ukraine will become a "red line" for the Russian Federation https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/stat...07162766901248

[Skybird]

Russia also operates nuclear-driven and nuclear-armed submarines and warships, which is a nculear escalation in itself. They also have staged bomber raids with planes capable to fire nuclear-armed missiles.