Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Onkel Neal]

I am not surprised the US has torpedoed the idea of swapping planes from Poland to Ukraine. First, they would just get shot down by the Russians. Second, this would be dangerously close to crossing the line to becoming an active participant in the war.

The time will come when Putin's forces will engage with Ukrainian insurgents on the Polish border and that's when NATO will declare war and hit back. We know that's just a matter of time; the US is quietly getting in position to rampage over the Russian army. After that, the Russians will start firing nukes and that's the end for Europe, Russia and the US and Canada. Could be the end of civilization.

The US definitely has its political problems with leaders like Trump and Biden, with a political party that wants to unravel the thread of our society and offer up our land and heritage to anyone who wants it. But at least we aren't cowed like the Russian people, who have had the same dictator for 22 years and counting. They just let their leaders walk all over them.

It's so laughable, that Putin believes the West wants to "weaken Russian and invade". Jeez, we don't give two craps about Russia. Never have. I guess when a dictator has full control over the Russian media, it's easy to get the people to believe whatever he wants them to. Add in their historic inclination to be followers, we end up in this mess.

One thing I can say about the Germans, after WWII, they have been an admirable nation. Who would have imagined that the country that spawned the Nazis would be more reasonable and intelligent than the country that the West fought to save, Russia?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

The time will come when Putin's forces will engage with Ukrainian insurgents on the Polish border and that's when NATO will declare war and hit back. We know that's just a matter of time; the US is quietly getting in position to rampage over the Russian army. After that, the Russians will start firing nukes and that's the end for Europe, Russia and the US and Canada. Could be the end of civilization.

May your prediction be wrong.

To be honest I believe you may be right.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

I hope I'm wrong too, but PUTIN.

[mapuc]

Even the former NATO leader Fogh say it's only a matter of time before NATO send fighter jets against Russian fighter jets.

Edit
I decided to use this deepl translator instead

Start article
We cannot rule out NATO sending combat aircraft against Russia, says Fogh

There is a real possibility that NATO will end up at war with Russia, says former Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

Only hours ago, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz purely refused to send fighter jets to Ukraine.

Nor do other European NATO countries or the US want to escalate the war against Russia by sending their own troops or planes into the air.

Yet former NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will not rule out the possibility that NATO could end up going to war.

- If we send aircraft, it will be to protect Ukrainian airspace, and then we must be ready to shoot down Russian aircraft. That would undeniably mean war between NATO and Russia, says Anders Fogh Rasmussen in the programme 'Lippert' on TV 2 NEWS.

And we must be ready for that, because the future of democracy in Europe is at stake, he says:

- I think that if it is to act as a deterrent to Putin, we must not rule anything out. And I'm one of those who says we should keep Putin in maximum uncertainty.

So we can't afford for Russia to win the war?

- No, we cannot. The Ukrainians have shown a fantastic will to fight and we will support them to the end.

For now, though, NATO is keeping its planes on the ground.

But the alliance has bolstered Ukraine's defences in other ways - with tens of thousands of weapons. These include anti-tank weapons and anti-tank missiles, of which Denmark alone has supplied 2,700.

And should the Russian president end up interpreting the West's weapons as a declaration of war, the former secretary-general has no doubt who would ultimately win.

- Putin would be beaten to a pulp by NATO. Once NATO moves, it will be with enormous force. You have to remember that the investments we make in defence are ten times greater than Putin's," he says.

Fogh wants to boycott Russian gas
At the same time, the West has tried to put an end to the war by imposing a wide range of sanctions on Russia.

The EU is currently discussing the possibility of becoming completely independent of Russian gas and oil. On Thursday, the 27 heads of state and government will meet in Brussels, where gas supplies from Russia are on the agenda.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen is in no doubt here either: gas from Russia must be boycotted completely - and sooner rather than later.

- It is important that we cut off Russia's oil and gas revenues as quickly as possible. I have been in contact with various actors in this area, and my assessment is that the West can manage for a year without it. It will, of course, be much more expensive to find elsewhere, but the price is small compared with the price in freedom and peace that we would otherwise have to pay.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
End of article

End edit

Markus

[Armistead]

Well, reporting is Ukraine has several squadrons that they basically can't use due to Russian surface to air superiority. Not sure what military airbases Ukraine has but why haven't they all been taken out. Is it due to Ukraine air defense in those areas? Seems to me we need to send drones. Heck, send a mass of cheap commercial drones that can carry 20lbs of TNT and just land them on their forward bases and blow em up.

[August]

Way I see it the Ukrainians might be better off getting surface to air missiles and other ground based anti-air defenses from us than a gaggle of obsolete fighter jets that might not last beyond one or two missions given the Russians own formidable AA capabilities. It would be far less provocative to supply that stuff as well. Those Polish jets risk a real shooting nuclear war the second they take off from a NATO airport even if they are flown by Ukrainian pilots with Ukrainian markings and IFF.

[Skybird]

Russia accuses the US of maintaining chemical weapon labs in the Ukraine. Washington fears this latest media manouver by the Kremlin might be the opening of preparing the use of chemical and biological weapons by Russia in the Ukraine.

[Skybird]

Cant recall I ever heard Neal sounding so pessimistic. Hope you are alright, Neal?!

[Onkel Neal]

I'm fine, but we're all screwed. I don't Putin backing down and if his forces engage Poland or any other NATO member, it's on. Big time.

Basically, Putin is going to screw up everyone's lives.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I'm fine, but we're all screwed. I don't Putin backing down and if his forces engage Poland or any other NATO member, it's on. Big time.

Basically, Putin is going to screw up everyone's lives.

Brandon was already doing a fine job of that on his own so now we might be double screwed.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Russia accuses the US of maintaining chemical weapon labs in the Ukraine. Washington fears this latest media manouver by the Kremlin might be the opening of preparing the use of chemical and biological weapons by Russia in the Ukraine.

All I can say is that's its a good thing they never figured out where we moved our space aliens and lizard men.

Of course we built a chemical weapons lab in Ukraine. Where else would we build it, Canada?

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

It's so laughable, that Putin believes the West wants to "weaken Russian and invade". Jeez, we don't give two craps about Russia. Never have.

This may be true for the USA, but unfortunately isn't for the West as a whole. Russians are being taught about their past, and Russia has experienced at least three serious invasions from the west: Napoleon invaded in 1812, the Western Allies intervened in the Russian Civil War from 1918 to 1920, and Nazi Germany invaded in 1941.


Yes, I'm aware that was all long ago, but all three events are still deeply embedded in Russian history and thinking.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Mapuc what made yoh post that Poland sent its MiG 29 jets to Ukraine? It didn't.

re russian attacks at hospitals and escape routes, this is nothing new, Russia already dit it in Syriah and elsewhere. Sign treaties, declare escape routes, and deliberately target civilians, then obliterate the cities. Russian lies.

"Russia says it is not seeking a change of power in the former Soviet republic with its war against Ukraine. The goal is "neither the occupation of Ukraine, nor the destruction of its statehood, nor the overthrow of the current leadership" under President Volodomir Zelensky, says Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova, according to the state agency Tass in Moscow."

So Russia/Putin says that? Lies again. Go fk yourself, Putin.

Precisely!

[Jimbuna]

A maternity ward and a children's ward have been destroyed in a Russian air strike on a hospital in the southern city of Mariupol, Ukrainian officials say.

Three people - including a child - died in the bombing, Mariupol's deputy mayor says.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky calls the attack on the facility a "war crime". "The destruction is colossal," the city council says.

Ukraine and Russia's foreign ministers are holding peace talks in Turkey.

The US warns that Russia could be planning a chemical or biological attack in Ukraine.

The US House of Representatives has passed a $13.6bn aid plan for Ukraine, while the IMF has approved $1.4bn in emergency funding.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I'm fine, but we're all screwed. I don't Putin backing down and if his forces engage Poland or any other NATO member, it's on. Big time.

Basically, Putin is going to screw up everyone's lives.

Basically he already has , look at costs and prices.Your endgame scenario is possible and realistic, but lets not forget it is one amongst several, still. There must be people in their hierarchy that want to live on, too. Parts of the FSB is already working against him.

Its serious. Not hopeless.