AUKUS

[Kapitan]

I dont think the RAN will be going with astute even with a time factor consideration.
The UK hasn't got all its boats just yet Agamemnon and Agincourt are still in build at Barrow, yes they are in an advanced stage but the last boat is no where near ready to hit the water.

With that said now the last boat is in the advanced build stage preparations are being made to re tool to start building the dreadnoughts so from a supply chain standpoint restarting the line will be very costly from this point onwards as well as take time and possibly delay the dreadnought program.

It would make more sense for the RAN to jump on board the replacement program this would be cheaper and doesn't jeopardize other projects already on going.

The UK is not as blessed as the US in that we have just one ship yard capable of building a submarine so any delays or changes has a massive ripple effect for future builds.

[Exocet25fr]

The decision prompted a major diplomatic spat with one of the European Union's largest members and now appears to have hit ties with the entire bloc.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...-submarine-row

[Kapitan]

Not a bad thing to be honest a free trade deal with Europe generally never benefits anyone but Europe so they just saved themselves a fortune

Free trade is also a misnomer causes a lot more problems than it solves

There’s a debate here in Canada about pulling out of the Canada Europe free trade agreement

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Not a bad thing to be honest a free trade deal with Europe generally never benefits anyone but Europe so they just saved themselves a fortune

QFT

[Exocet25fr]

Ah! Ok!, so no problem.....

But Australia isn't uk or usa, it seems Canberra doesn't think like you ! so why Australian Trade Minister Dan Tehan was scheduled to travel to Europe for the talks about FTA?

Tehan indicated he plans to meet EU Trade Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis next week to discuss and work towards concluding a free trade agreement!. I don't understand

Anyway

[ET2SN]

Trade agreements are not the same as submarines.

In the words of Vince Neil, "Don't go away mad, just go away".

[Kapitan]

Yea he was due to travel to conclude a deal however looking at the free trade deals already made by the EU with non EU countries like Canada shows they are not all what they are cracked up to be

Even inside Europe there’s a lot of bitterness the common agricultural policy fisheries policy the steel policy was not exactly warmly received in the UK or Norway the later forced their government into an election because of it

Canada’s free trade deal has been hurting western Canadian farmers who want out of the deal

Given that Australia has a similar economy to Canada in terms of exports it’s reasonable to assume that similar arrangements would likely to be made

Free trade agreements are not overly good in general and many countries around the world have complained to the WTO about European deals over the last decade and half

Even the German DW team made a big documentary about it all

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Trade agreements are not the same as submarines.

In the words of Vince Neil, "Don't go away mad, just go away".

On the surface it’s about submarines in reality the AUKUS arrangement is much more than submarines and submarine technology there’s a lot more in it than that

On the flip side the barracuda would be a good project for india and possibly Canada both countries are currently looking for new submarines and with India you could recoup that 12 sub deal and expand on it

France has good ties with Canada so another 4 could be ordered n theory totalling 16 units

To be honest France has a good conventional submarine in the scorpene class if they adapted that for AIP I think there could be some serious buyers and it would rival Germany too

[mapuc]

They will indeed find other buyers to these subs.

About trade agreements.

Maybe I'm soft, but I would make an agreement where both parties are gaining from it.

Markus

[ET2SN]

AIP in a nuke hull with a full suite of sensors does not compute.

That's like dropping a lawn mower engine in a 1970's Cadillac. In theory, it will move. Just, not much.

[Catfish]

^ Then they are doing something wrong, the first real AIP Walther U-boat made some 26 knots submerged

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ Then they are doing something wrong, the first real AIP Walther U-boat made some 26 knots submerged

On the batteries at a flank bell.

Pretend I know what I'm writing. I did my time on a diesel boat and a nuke. Generating power on a diesel/AIP is always about the minimums. Nukes generate power like its going out of style. Nukes can also run high bells for as long as the crew can stand it.

Getting back to Australia, the Pacific is freaking huge. Its not the same ball game as putting around coastal Europe.

[Catfish]

Did not mean the electric boats.
"The U-793 achieved a submerged speed of 22 kn (41 km/h; 25 mph) in March 1944 with Admiral Dönitz aboard. In June 1944 U-792 achieved 25 kn (46 km/h; 29 mph) over a measured mile."
Aip with H-peroxide in 1944

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Did not mean the electric boats.
"The U-793 achieved a submerged speed of 22 kn (41 km/h; 25 mph) in March 1944 with Admiral Dönitz aboard. In June 1944 U-792 achieved 25 kn (46 km/h; 29 mph) over a measured mile."
Aip with H-peroxide in 1944

I read about this was an interesting concept and I know post war the British did build two boats the Excalibur and Explorer the crews nicknamed them the exploder class.
HTP is very unstable when it comes in to contact with some catalysts just take a look at what it did to Kursk.

I think the only boats that come close to the original walther design is the Swedish Gotland class.

ET2SN is right though the pacific is a different ball game to the Atlantic or coastal Europe in terms of distances needing to be traversed.
That said the Soryu is the most interesting of the conventional and very good at what they do realistically the aussies should have gone with these but the Japanese didn't want to build them outside Japan.

[mapuc]

I know Sweden invented something, which made it possible for a dieselsub to stay below surface for weeks without use of snorkel.

I also know that this invention is/was blocked for sale to other countries.

Like the American F-22 Raptor

Markus