[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

1. Proceeding on the surface to Area 10 on 5/13/45, near the eastern entrance of the Tsugaru Strait, we detected a small freighter through the raised periscope rather than the radar or sonar. Radar was confirmed on and set to continuous sweep.

2. The radar has always been inferior to sound detection; I understand this is a known issue.

3. The Mk 16 torpedo seems to have less explosive power than even the Mk 14 from the stock game, much less than the Mk 16. Small freighters and escorts routinely take two or more hits to sink. In one recent attack, an 800 ton escort shook off a hit from abeam just forward of the superstructure; a second hit from abeam just forward of the stack finally caused it to stop and slowly sink 10 min later.

The radar being inferior on range to sonar is not a known issue. It was a fact of life. It could not reach out as far as sonar until much later, and the US sonar was anemic compared to some of the German models. As for the torpedoes, are you using magnetic, or impact torpedoes? I had a Mark 14 the other day during testing explode several tens of yards before a ship, which from the scope looked like a good hit, but was actually a pre-mature detonation. Only the magnetics are set to have a premature chance though. Both the Mark 14 & the Mark 16 have the same "power", with the Mark 18 being slightly stronger. The 14 has a slightly larger "minimum" area that it can do damage in than the 16, but the 16 has a larger maximum radius. Depth keeping in both is similar until roughly mid-1943. You might be deep enough to trigger an explosion, but you might closer to the maximum radius than the minimum, and therefore experiencing less damage. This is for magnetic pistols, of course. Impact, and you should be about equal, other than dealing with a roll of the dice for the actual damage imparted.

Also, we have more and more ships as time progresses and we get to them, that are more difficult to sink than previously. This is a bit of an undertaking with almost 300 ships in FotRSU. You still have a chance of sinking a ship with one hit, but sometimes not. We still have to go through the DD and other escort ships' folders and re-do some of the "damage model" in them. One DD will take two, another 3, and others blow sky-high with one.

Originally Posted by the beast

Never had that problem before. Maybe I have but I just didn't notice.

Neither have I! When I enter a timed (5 days or 10 Days) patrol I mark the date and time. I save whenever I want, usually before setting up an approach, and after the attack. As the time ends for that patrol I've seen the objective completed message, usually right when the expired time duration occurs.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The radar being inferior on range to sonar is not a known issue. It was a fact of life. It could not reach out as far as sonar until much later, and the US sonar was anemic compared to some of the German models.

As a recent convert from stock, that's the only reference point I have; there radar was always superior to sonar, so I assumed.

**On this continued patrol, the radar has gotten increasingly erratic. It detected two convoys with sufficient time to set up ambushes, the second in bad weather. Roughly a day after the destruction of the second convoy, while stationary in very bad weather, we were attacked by a medium cooler that suddenly appeared only 750 meters away with zero warning from radar OR sonar. I verified the radar power and sweep buttons were lit.**

It's possible the cooler approached from behind, then turned 90 degrees across our stern in the darkness, explaining the lack of sonar warning, but the radar?

Originally Posted by propbeanie

As for the torpedoes, are you using magnetic, or impact torpedoes? I had a Mark 14 the other day during testing explode several tens of yards before a ship, which from the scope looked like a good hit, but was actually a pre-mature detonation. Only the magnetics are set to have a premature chance though. Both the Mark 14 & the Mark 16 have the same "power", with the Mark 18 being slightly stronger. The 14 has a slightly larger "minimum" area that it can do damage in than the 16, but the 16 has a larger maximum radius. Depth keeping in both is similar until roughly mid-1943. You might be deep enough to trigger an explosion, but you might closer to the maximum radius than the minimum, and therefore experiencing less damage. This is for magnetic pistols, of course. Impact, and you should be about equal, other than dealing with a roll of the dice for the actual damage imparted.

Also, we have more and more ships as time progresses and we get to them, that are more difficult to sink than previously. This is a bit of an undertaking with almost 300 ships in FotRSU. You still have a chance of sinking a ship with one hit, but sometimes not. We still have to go through the DD and other escort ships' folders and re-do some of the "damage model" in them. One DD will take two, another 3, and others blow sky-high with one.

I'm using magnetic exploders to run 0.5-1.5 meters below escorts, deeper than that for merchants, and even deeper for large warships. The dud torpedoes setting is turned off, though I have observed a number of premature explosions.

However, in the case of the 800 ton escort mentioned earlier, I zoomed in and saw two damaged areas in the sections described. IIRC, the depth had been set to 4 meters. Except for down-the-throat hits on directly on the nose of charging escorts, which can severely rattle but not sink them in stock, one Mk 16 hit generally is enough for almost all merchants and escorts, including heavy cruisers and the Taiho. Which leads me to:

The Mk 16 should be twice as powerful as the Mk 14. From what I've read, the Mk 14 had a 643 lb torpex warhead; the Mk 16 mod 0 warhead was 1,260 lbs of torpex.

[propbeanie]

There is a difference between the game and real life, of course. The Mark 16 did indeed have a larger warhead of 1260lbs torpex (which is modeled in SH4 & FotRSU - I missed a line in a previoius post), while the Mark 14 mod3 had 668 (ref NavWeaps). However, the game also has them available in 1943, while in real life, they were never used in WWII. The torpedo is "simulated" to have a larger damage area, which does make it more powerful in the game... I am not certain how the game handles depth-keeping as opposed to actual pre-mature detonations or duds. All three settings reside in one file, so I would assume that the game turns them on or off as a group with the menu's settings... however, again, the damage imparted from your torpedo is still just a roll of the dice. The closer the torpedo is to the ship when it explodes, the greater the chance of more damage, but, it is still a "chance" kind of thing... For the purposes of FotRSU, it would not be appropriate to have you able to obliterate any and all ships with a single Mark 16.

As for the radar, remember that you are on a "moving" ship, and I'm talking about the roll of the sea. Your rotating antennae has a "beam" that it shoots out and then tries to "collect" the reflections. The bobbing to and fro has an impact on the perceived range, if it works at all. It is entirely possible for a ship to have seen you, turned and attempted to ram you, or just was just on an intercept course quite by accident. Check your watch crew though...

[Texas Red]

I've had instances in previous games where just by sheer luck, in the poorest weather possible, we run into a destroyer that sees us at like 150 meters and we have no time to crash dive and the destroyer rams us and sinks us. So freaking frustrating.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

As for the radar, remember that you are on a "moving" ship, and I'm talking about the roll of the sea. Your rotating antennae has a "beam" that it shoots out and then tries to "collect" the reflections. The bobbing to and fro has an impact on the perceived range, if it works at all. It is entirely possible for a ship to have seen you, turned and attempted to ram you, or just was just on an intercept course quite by accident. Check your watch crew though...

I went back to the save point several hours after the last convoy ambush and set the sub onto a continual 5 degree port turn to prevent anyone sneaking up our baffles in the bad weather. Both the radar power and continuous sweep buttons were observed to be lit and the watch crews' efficiency to be in the high 90s. So what happened next?

That same medium cooler eventually popped into existence 900 meters away and shelled us until we dove.


The problem is that the SJ radar's Continuous Sweep button is lit when viewed from another screen, but in actuality it is set on Focus. If you go to one of the scopes, the button is no longer lit.


I note there is some similarity to Known Issue #2 in post #2 of this thread, except that I don't use keyboard shortcuts other than L and Q (mouse for everything else) and that the Continuous Sweep button deceptively remains lit.




EDITED to ADD: I just ran this again, this time with a 10 degree turn to port and having turned on the Continuous Sweep on the actual scope screen. Nevertheless, the medium cooler appeared 900 meters off our starboard bow with no warning from either radar OR sonar. Once again they had the drop on us, firing before we knew anyone was there.

10:33 CE: We're under attack!
10:33 CE: Hull damaged!
10:33 Sonarman: Sonar contact! Merchant moving slow closing! Bearing 058! Short range!

[propbeanie]

I'm looking into something else right now Mios 4Me, but what boat are you in, what is the date, and where are you located geographically in the game? The weather, especially if you are on the surface, looms large in the fact that you cannot "hear" the sonar on the surface, you cannot see for the weather, and your radar is all over the place. You are basically flying blind. Good time to be down 80+ and waiting for a break in the weather. Down there, you can at least hear.

[KaleunMarco]

August 10, 1945, Sailing into San Francisco. Job Well Done.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

I went back to the save point several hours after the last convoy ambush and set the sub onto a continual 5 degree port turn to prevent anyone sneaking up our baffles in the bad weather. Both the radar power and continuous sweep buttons were observed to be lit and the watch crews' efficiency to be in the high 90s. So what happened next?

That same medium cooler eventually popped into existence 900 meters away and shelled us until we dove.


The problem is that the SJ radar's Continuous Sweep button is lit when viewed from another screen, but in actuality it is set on Focus. If you go to one of the scopes, the button is no longer lit.


I note there is some similarity to Known Issue #2 in post #2 of this thread, except that I don't use keyboard shortcuts other than L and Q (mouse for everything else) and that the Continuous Sweep button deceptively remains lit.




EDITED to ADD: I just ran this again, this time with a 10 degree turn to port and having turned on the Continuous Sweep on the actual scope screen. Nevertheless, the medium cooler appeared 900 meters off our starboard bow with no warning from either radar OR sonar. Once again they had the drop on us, firing before we knew anyone was there.

10:33 CE: We're under attack!
10:33 CE: Hull damaged!
10:33 Sonarman: Sonar contact! Merchant moving slow closing! Bearing 058! Short range!

if you are in bad weather and at close range with the enemy, you should be submerged.
at periscope depth, you have sonar coverage. you can open up range if you want to escape or get a contact bearing if you want to attack again.
even if you want to re-attack on the surface, you do not want to be within visible range of any surface ship as they will decimate you at close range.
they.will.not.miss.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I'm looking into something else right now Mios 4Me, but what boat are you in, what is the date, and where are you located geographically in the game? The weather, especially if you are on the surface, looms large in the fact that you cannot "hear" the sonar on the surface, you cannot see for the weather, and your radar is all over the place. You are basically flying blind. Good time to be down 80+ and waiting for a break in the weather. Down there, you can at least hear.

USS Quillback, Tench class, 4/28/45, 41 15' N, 140 05' E


Weather is appalling up here for days at a time, meaning no air cover and an ideal environment for one-sided gunnery, making it my all-time favorite hunting ground. I have never had an issue at this location, except with this cooler. There was an undetected small freighter mentioned earlier that I acquired visually at the other end of the strait on this patrol though.


EDITED to ADD: even when I switch the SJ to Focus on the scope screen, the setting doesn't stick. When I switched to sonar, then back to PPI, the setting was back to Focus. Doesn't matter if I use the switch or the button.

[propbeanie]

Thanks for that. Did you do the prescribed tests on your new ST and all other radar prior to departure, as Adm. C.A. Lockwood has mandated?...

Just kidding of course, but KaleunMarco reported radar issues on his Balao after being fitted with the ST after Jan of 1945. But your boat is fresh off the lot, still has that new car smell, so surely it functions as intended?...

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

if you are in bad weather and at close range with the enemy, you should be submerged.
at periscope depth, you have sonar coverage. you can open up range if you want to escape or get a contact bearing if you want to attack again.
even if you want to re-attack on the surface, you do not want to be within visible range of any surface ship as they will decimate you at close range.
they.will.not.miss.

I've noticed that of late, when the radar's offline and I don't have the drop on them.



OTOH, of the last convoy I attacked (with the radar actually functioning normally), the Split Merchant went down after a single torpedo (making sport of my comments to Propbeanie about weak torpedoes), the Large Composite Freighter was sunk by 5" fire after being softened up by a Mk 16, and the Whale Factory Ship fell to gunfire alone. The only damage received has been from that teleporting Medium Cooler so far.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Thanks for that. Did you do the prescribed tests on your new ST and all other radar prior to departure, as Adm. C.A. Lockwood has mandated?...

Just kidding of course, but KaleunMarco reported radar issues on his Balao after being fitted with the ST after Jan of 1945. But your boat is fresh off the lot, still has that new car smell, so surely it functions as intended?...

It's worked well enough on the first two patrols that I didn't notice any issues like this one. Even then, it's not consistent; as I noted to Marco above, it worked properly on the previous attack. It also failed earlier in the patrol, though, so I'm at a loss.

[Mios 4Me]

Originally Posted by the beast

I've had instances in previous games where just by sheer luck, in the poorest weather possible, we run into a destroyer that sees us at like 150 meters and we have no time to crash dive and the destroyer rams us and sinks us. So freaking frustrating.

Missed this the first time. Which class and radar did you have?

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Thanks for that. Did you do the prescribed tests on your new ST and all other radar prior to departure, as Adm. C.A. Lockwood has mandated?...

Just kidding of course, but KaleunMarco reported radar issues on his Balao after being fitted with the ST after Jan of 1945. But your boat is fresh off the lot, still has that new car smell, so surely it functions as intended?...

that is correct. ST radar on a Balao did not function at all. it made that combat patrol quite nerve racking. that item was #1 on my gripe list when we returned to port. i made sure that the repair crew replaced it with the "old" SJ-1 which worked just fine, thank you very much.