Kaelun,the recognition manual is super dark RANT

Wolfstriked · 02-25-23, 10:31 AM

The recognition manual is super dark to point of being like a comedy skit I watched recently.

Man1:I am better than you cause "I" have gone solar!!
Man2: I guess
Man1:I rarely use local city electricity and all my light bulbs are fluorescent and max 35 watts!
Man2:Oh yeah?! Well...I can't see you....you are dim....YOUR DIM!!

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10154277590353215

This darkness is cause of trying to simulate eye adaptation but somewhere someone went overboard.

heck even when its done just slightly I have a hard time reading the info.

But there is other issues.So many ships in Sh3 since my last foray 9yrs ago now its a huge task to find what the ship is to point of not being realistic...IMO.I use NYGM Enhanced and can tell you its downright impossible at times.I use the weapons operator to identify ship to find the type but the name doesn't pop up anywhere.So now I must scroll thru(290 ships folders)numerous kinda nauseating amounts of pics searching for an elusive check mark that I can hardly see.

In real life no doubt when you were tasked to go patrol waters around the Polish port you had info on what countries were trading with the Polish and what to look out for.Not a merchant book filled with numerous unreadable pics of ships.

So now,how to fix something that with more and more ships being added will only get worse and worse??

Please be gentle....btw

For anyone interested I brightened up the NYGM Enhanced manual here

https://www.mediafire.com/file/lwdak...Manual.7z/file

Hooston · 02-26-23, 05:44 PM

i get your point, but NYGM is supposed to be difficult. I don't see how a recognition manual could be used efficiently at night on a surfaced u-boat (although maybe someone will "enlighten" me). Try GWX or LSH or a different GUI for an easier life.

I'm discovering that in real life establishing an accurate range and speed was very difficult and attack procedures were designed to get round that. Things could be estimated "by eye" in real life much easier than in game, but nowhere near as accurately as the game watch officer can do it.
In particular getting speed, range and angle on the bow from the map distance travelled in 3 minutes 15 seconds is just not realistic.

Take a look at Tonci87's recent playthrough to see how it was really done.
The exact ship draughts in the manual (laden or unladen?) and the need to set magnetic torpedo running depths so accurately cannot be right either.

As a work-around it might be better for you to have a printout of the recognition manual so you can whizz through it without all the click click. I'm sure there's a copy on this forum somewhere.

Wolfstriked · 02-26-23, 07:11 PM

A recognition manual you cant use because its too dark does not simulate anything but is just broken.I am not the only person who stated the super dark recognition manual when using ARB GUI in NYGM Enhanced.Fifi said its not gonna change and I took that as that is up to the maker of ARB GUI as Fifi has his hands full.

And Tonci87 uses onealex which has a brighter hence easier to read recognition manual.And the reason why I use the WO to calculate a solution is cause I cant read the recognition manual.I can take a speed measurement but then look at manual that WO has identified but cant read the ships length so its useless for me.

And please,I hope to not come across as a person who doesn't appreciate what modders make for us for free.

Wolfstriked · 02-26-23, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooston

I don't see how a recognition manual could be used efficiently at night on a surfaced u-boat (although maybe someone will "enlighten" me).

Most likely someone inside sub near a light source would take cues from person on scope and search in the manual with a light source.Also,I would assume that they had some type of info as to who was trading with who and what merchants ships certain countries were using.

Wolfstriked · 02-26-23, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooston

The exact ship draughts in the manual (laden or unladen?) and the need to set magnetic torpedo running depths so accurately cannot be right either.

I agree about laden and unladen.

Just read yesterday that what was great about magnetic pistol was it had magnetic detonator but also a pistol detonator.If it hit the side of ship it would still detonate.I think they just took draft of a laden ship as the default and if ship was unladen oh well it misses....but no big deal as it wasnt carrying anything anyway.

Fifi · 02-27-23, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooston

Things could be estimated "by eye" in real life much easier than in game

That’s exactly how I’m playing NYGM (or any other megamod) with great success

Never use the recon book, never calculate or draw anything on Nav map (except to intercept convoys)… all by eye estimation !
Magnetic torp always set to 6 meters for any ships, contact torp always set to 5 meters (or little higher for small ships)
Target speed set by visual estimation (or with help of sonar man announcing) as well as AOB… only few experience required

What to say about target distance? I never calculate it

Only visual estimation again … more than 90% hit success…
Don’t loose time to scroll the recon book, or draw things on map for heavy calculations useless … only visual estimation and experience (as it was in real!) is the key

Hooston · 02-27-23, 03:24 AM

There's a real US navy recognition manual on the web here: https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni2...hips/pg135.htm There are a LOT of pages! The big differences between claims and actual tonnages show that U-boat captains were not very good at identifying merchants. My understanding from this forum is that the stadimeter was deleted from U boats quite early in the war, presumably because it was not all that useful in practice.

i have seen plots used in real life to aid an attack, most famously the sinking of U-864 by HMS Venturer; it's just the accuracy of the ranges (and even bearings) from the game watch officer are way too good, even with the HSie mod. It would be nice to have some properly rubbish ranges dependent on the watch officer's ability.

i suppose making the manual too dark to read at night is going a bit far, the realism fanatics (like me) can always choose to not look at it. It's a bit like choosing whether to ask the watch officer for range and bearing or to identify a target, or locking on to targets you cannot actually see... i guess it's a bug.

Wolfstriked · 02-27-23, 11:54 AM

The link you posted is dead.Can you fix that?Not that I would use it just wanna see what an official recognition manual looks like.

Hooston · 02-27-23, 05:21 PM

Hmmm.. the link works for me...

Try this https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni2...merchant-ships

It's very like the SH3 game manual, but has a more logical order and is WAAAY bigger! It has both loaded and light draft - there's a big difference.

Obviously it's US vs Japan, I've not seen a Kriegsmarine one.

02-25-23, 10:31 AM	#1
Wolfstriked Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 756 Downloads: 230 Uploads: 0	Kaelun,the recognition manual is super dark RANT The recognition manual is super dark to point of being like a comedy skit I watched recently. Man1:I am better than you cause "I" have gone solar!! Man2: I guess Man1:I rarely use local city electricity and all my light bulbs are fluorescent and max 35 watts! Man2:Oh yeah?! Well...I can't see you....you are dim....YOUR DIM!! https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10154277590353215 This darkness is cause of trying to simulate eye adaptation but somewhere someone went overboard. heck even when its done just slightly I have a hard time reading the info. But there is other issues.So many ships in Sh3 since my last foray 9yrs ago now its a huge task to find what the ship is to point of not being realistic...IMO.I use NYGM Enhanced and can tell you its downright impossible at times.I use the weapons operator to identify ship to find the type but the name doesn't pop up anywhere.So now I must scroll thru(290 ships folders)numerous kinda nauseating amounts of pics searching for an elusive check mark that I can hardly see. In real life no doubt when you were tasked to go patrol waters around the Polish port you had info on what countries were trading with the Polish and what to look out for.Not a merchant book filled with numerous unreadable pics of ships. So now,how to fix something that with more and more ships being added will only get worse and worse?? Please be gentle....btw For anyone interested I brightened up the NYGM Enhanced manual here https://www.mediafire.com/file/lwdak...Manual.7z/file Last edited by Wolfstriked; 03-02-23 at 12:06 AM.

02-26-23, 05:44 PM	#2
Hooston Soundman Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 143 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Reality is really difficult i get your point, but NYGM is supposed to be difficult. I don't see how a recognition manual could be used efficiently at night on a surfaced u-boat (although maybe someone will "enlighten" me). Try GWX or LSH or a different GUI for an easier life. I'm discovering that in real life establishing an accurate range and speed was very difficult and attack procedures were designed to get round that. Things could be estimated "by eye" in real life much easier than in game, but nowhere near as accurately as the game watch officer can do it. In particular getting speed, range and angle on the bow from the map distance travelled in 3 minutes 15 seconds is just not realistic. Take a look at Tonci87's recent playthrough to see how it was really done. The exact ship draughts in the manual (laden or unladen?) and the need to set magnetic torpedo running depths so accurately cannot be right either. As a work-around it might be better for you to have a printout of the recognition manual so you can whizz through it without all the click click. I'm sure there's a copy on this forum somewhere.

02-27-23, 03:24 AM	#7
Hooston Soundman Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 143 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Real recognition manual There's a real US navy recognition manual on the web here: https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni2...hips/pg135.htm There are a LOT of pages! The big differences between claims and actual tonnages show that U-boat captains were not very good at identifying merchants. My understanding from this forum is that the stadimeter was deleted from U boats quite early in the war, presumably because it was not all that useful in practice. i have seen plots used in real life to aid an attack, most famously the sinking of U-864 by HMS Venturer; it's just the accuracy of the ranges (and even bearings) from the game watch officer are way too good, even with the HSie mod. It would be nice to have some properly rubbish ranges dependent on the watch officer's ability. i suppose making the manual too dark to read at night is going a bit far, the realism fanatics (like me) can always choose to not look at it. It's a bit like choosing whether to ask the watch officer for range and bearing or to identify a target, or locking on to targets you cannot actually see... i guess it's a bug. Last edited by Hooston; 02-27-23 at 05:11 AM.

02-26-23, 07:11 PM	#3
Wolfstriked Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 756 Downloads: 230 Uploads: 0	A recognition manual you cant use because its too dark does not simulate anything but is just broken.I am not the only person who stated the super dark recognition manual when using ARB GUI in NYGM Enhanced.Fifi said its not gonna change and I took that as that is up to the maker of ARB GUI as Fifi has his hands full. And Tonci87 uses onealex which has a brighter hence easier to read recognition manual.And the reason why I use the WO to calculate a solution is cause I cant read the recognition manual.I can take a speed measurement but then look at manual that WO has identified but cant read the ships length so its useless for me. And please,I hope to not come across as a person who doesn't appreciate what modders make for us for free.

02-27-23, 11:54 AM	#8
Wolfstriked Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 756 Downloads: 230 Uploads: 0	The link you posted is dead.Can you fix that?Not that I would use it just wanna see what an official recognition manual looks like.

02-27-23, 05:21 PM	#9
Hooston Soundman Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 143 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Hmmm.. the link works for me... Try this https://archive.hnsa.org/doc/id/oni2...merchant-ships It's very like the SH3 game manual, but has a more logical order and is WAAAY bigger! It has both loaded and light draft - there's a big difference. Obviously it's US vs Japan, I've not seen a Kriegsmarine one.