Forget the zombie apocalypse, here's the real danger coming: DRONES!

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Wow potatoes. classy


Keep it up young man, you are on to a winning arguement there

It earned him an infraction.

People, make your points without referring to someone's nationality over and over, that's not helping the discussion.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Codz

If your talking about a "cultural invasion", then where are all of the new Mosques

Murfreesboro, Dearborn, Ground Zero on my route to university...

or massive amounts of Islam converts in Western civilization?

Prisons...

Magnitude of the Threat
? "For many disaffected young people, their first contact with Islam comes in jail. Over the past 30 years, Islam has become a powerful force in America's correctional system. In New York State, it's estimated that between 17 and 20 percent of all inmates are Muslims - a number that experts say holds nationally."
? "Currently, there are approximately 350,000 Muslims in Federal, state and local prisons - with 30,000-40,000 being added to that number each year....These inmates mostly came into prison as non-Muslims. But, it so happens that once inside the prison a majority turns to Islam for the fulfillment of spiritual needs... It is estimated that of those who seek faith while imprisoned, about 80% come to Islam. This fact alone is a major contributor to the phenomenal growth of Islam in the U.S."

Notable Prison Converts
? Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber) was converted by a radical imam (Abdul Ghani Qureshi at the suggestion of his father, a Jamaican-born career criminal who converted to Islam) in a British prison. British MP Oliver Letwin says that Reid's conversion to Islam suggests that young inmates are being targeted by radical organizations.
? Jose Padilla (aka Abdullah al-Muhajir) - "the Dirty Bomber" - was exposed to radical Islam during time in American prisons, and from there was recruited into the al Qaeda network.
? Aqil converted to Islam while serving time in California's boot-camp system. He went to an Afghani training camp with one of the men accused of kidnapping and murdering Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

Back in the old days the Soviets would target disenfranchised western University students for recruitment. We saw this with The Weathermen, RAF, etc. The Soviets offered them the peaceful socialist utopia they wanted.

The Islamists are targeting prisons because they can offer them what the Prisoners (some of them anyways) want: a moral excuse for committing crime... that and 72 (female) virgins sounds real nice for a inmate bending over for a 300 lb ex-biker named 'Bubba'.

Yeah that is a strange globe I'm using that shows Iran on the border of Afghanistan and Iraq, isn't it. Very strange. Ought to get a refund on that globe and get a new one, even though it will still show Iran in the middle of Afghanistan and Iraq. Maybe I ought to just do away with the globe and get a map. Perhaps the outdated Michelin road map will work. Oh wait, that still shows Iran on the border of Afghanistan and Iraq. Dang. Cartographers must be stupid, huh. You're right, Siam (Thailand) borders Iran and has a bunch of US military troops and equipment in it.

I hate to bring you up to date with the events you are an expert on but your bunch of US military troops and bases and airfields and equipment in thast country which borders Iran happens to be ....about 150 troops guarding the US embassy
Perhaps you missed the event, after all the end of the US presence after such a disasterous waste of time didn't make much headline news again and again on every news channel and every newspaper did it.
The Iranian backed government wouldn't give America decent terms for its troops to stay on so they all left.

It earned him an infraction.

Was it needed?
After all it must be very frustrating and confusing for him if he is only just discovering that the US handed over Iraq, so you can have sympathy with him while he gets over the shock as people can do strange things when something hits them like that.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Codz

This is just sad. I've never seen a more pure example of fear mongering.

That most likely is because you lack knoweldge and too superficially trust in what you just are being told, not questioning the motives of the person who is telling you. Especially on Quranic ideology. If you do not know that Islam sees itself at war with all the non-Islamic world and bases on the argument that there can be no peace as long as it does not rule everywhere (Islam=peace, absence of Islam=war), then you know nothing about this ideology, nothing worthwhile at least. The claim of Islam for superiority and rulership, is universal. Sorry if that spoils your glossing illusions, but that is what this ideology is like. I did not make it.

The chances of radical Islam "taking over the world" are somwhere around zero. All of the most powerful countries in the world have laws enforcing free religion.

Islam is the fatserst gropwing religion in the world currently (once again). And it spreads in turbo mode throughout Europe. This brings a lot of integraiton problems as well, because Muslims do not like to integrate, they prefer that their hosts changes accoring to their likings. Those Muslims integrating, or trying to - are a MINORITY here.

Already in your own country America there is a very sharp conflict going on between Christians and atheists. Seven of your federal states ban atheists from public offices despite the constitution/amandements saying different. In Germany, the church has special status that in parts excludes it from law enforcement, tax duty, and the state collects manadatory church taxes. Freedom of relgion also must include freedom from relgion, but you cannot really escape it. The number of mosques being build constantly raises: in England, in sweden, in Netherlands, in Germany.

Islam does not now the sepoaration between relgion and politics, it both always were in one and the same hand from Muhammad'S time on, until today. That is why they demand a religious rule book to be the basis of any state's jurisdiction and constitution. We are secular, more or less, Islam is "monolithic". Western guarantees - in our constitutions for example - for freedom of religious practicing base on the prnmciple of secularism, of strict separation between state and church, politcs and relgion. But Islam does not know this separation, refuses to accept it, and claims right the opposite: both are the same (of course lobby groups in the West tell you differently: they want to deceive you so that they get their way). That means that bIslamic groups can make and attempt poltical claims and goals - and avoid political resistence to that by opportunistiucally disguising it as "relgion", which they demand to be free to practice. This works nicely. Our courts time and again let Islamic perpetrators get away when they break the law for exmaple over violence at home and beating up women or raping their babysitters - with courts and judges expressing acceptance to this cultural charcateristic. Then ther eis the issue of ironically so-called freedom courts, an Islamic parallel justice where self-declared "judges" bystep the only their there can be: that of the state, and prevent law enforcmeent and hinder pllice research by negotiating conflicts betwen Muslims internally. This leads to deals getting done, witnesses and victims being itnimidated by their families, charges being recalled/cancelled.

You think that is okay? Two things.

First. We have somethign we call civil rights and equality of men and women. The freedom courts however do not base or accept these, they base on opportunistically hisding conflicts from the law enforcement auhtorities, and partially on implementing Shariah as well as poatriarchalic habits and rites, for example that a female'S confession is not worth half as much as that of a male, and that a victim of rape is the perpetrator when she provoced the assault by just existing, or family murders of dishonour (sorry, I refuse to call them honour killings). Witnesses get called back by their families, families do internal deals to save their face/"honour", the law of the penlty codce gets evades, the polcie gets hgindered. Fighting organised crime (which is a vwery big problem in case of the many Muslim giant family clans we have here with hundreds of members of which the majority can be crminal) becomes impossible that way.

Second. Freedom courts are not about the question of guilt, and responsibility. They are about not lettiong the public now, and keep it internal. What our law system includes: to solve the riddle of who is repsonsible for what, is not that much interesting. And what our coiurts want to acchieve: involved people taking their share of repsonsibility, also is not necessarily part of the process.

You think that this will help integration? Wrong. It actively hinders integration by evading the rules of the hosting nation, it keeps such migrants isolated and amongst themselbes, actively resistring to integration. It teaches them that it is okay to not respect the law of their hosts.

Finally, you may want to do some rserahc yourself on the issue of taqiyya. No matter how you pronolunce it, there are so many versions of how to write it around. It emegred from the shia tradiiton during the time when the Sunnis gained the upperhand in the internal Islamic civil war (which rages since a 1000 years until today, if you do not know that). Taqiyya means the permission to hide and to lie over one'S own Muslim identty and motives if that is needed to survive a prsent repression or situation in which one is at danger to lose one'S life when it gets revealed one is Muslim. Originally, it was relgious permission to renounce oneself withoiut that being seen as sinful or blasphemic. Later - and that is what often doe snot get told - the Sunni tradition copied that tactic and now it is in wide use by Islamic lobby groups in the West who want to spread Idslam further and further and want to make states chnage their legislation in favour of Islamic demands. It is nothing else than the relgious permission to lie and betray over the real motives and goals of Isalam, if this lying and betraying helps the cause of Islam. I experienced this directly myself: I was part of a citizen's group that several years successfully sued a Muslim community that bought additional property near an existing mosque on basis of forged information about identity and intention of the buyer, in other words, the deal was done on their behalf by a strawman who traded the seller false information. They did so becasue the local oppsotion to increaisng the mkosque, was immense. After the court was done and the deal annuled, I spoke with one of those cheaters representing the other side. He smiled me in the face and without any sign of feeling guilty or having a bad conscience he told me right to my face that of course they lied and cheated, else they would not have gotten what they wanted, and that it was for the case of Islam, and that that always is a good case. Compare to statements you hear time and again from Muslim clerics and politicians and representatives who time and again tell the world'S cameras that it is impossible that this or that Muslim guy, this or that Muslim country did somethign wrong or did something evil - becasue iot were impossibole for a Muslim or a Muslim ci8hjtry to be evil or to do something evil.

Okay. It is now your turn again, i only wait to be called "Islamophobic" like so often before. Somewthing is missing if I do not get called Islamophobic, and the audience is waiitng for it, so do us the favour. But I base on over 14 months of living in Muslim countries, I base on seeing since many years how non-Muslim integration in germany works very well and Muslim integration in germany is a disaster, I base on having read the damn the Quran and some commentary books on it as well, and having had an input from almost three dozen books about Islam and its history. I do not do academic studies on it, but I have had some information on it, you see.

The US, Russia, France, Germany, Japan, China, etc. Not a single Middle Eastern country could take on any of those powers outside of their own territory. If your talking about a "cultural invasion", then where are all of the new Mosques or massive amounts of Islam converts in Western civilization? .

They are right here. Come over and I lead you around.

Islam has understood that it cannot take over the world, the Wetsenr world at least,m by launching another general war on Europpe, like it tried repeatedly in the past. Their fighting spirit outbreathes ours (they can endure longer wars, we cannot without our socities revolting), but our weapons are better. They have found alternatives: first, there is oil, of which the US has been wise to m,ake itself indepednet from, as far as Saudi arabia is concerned. But the real Islamic atomic bomb is - demographics. In several European states, the numbers speak volumes. Muslim migrants have signifivcantly higher birth rates, than European native families. In some countries, Muslim names lead the hitlists of baby names, by numbers. France will be a dominantly Muslimc country somewhere by the middle of this century. Jews need to flee from regions and city districts in Sweden, Netherlands, England. Malmö is a powderkeg, in England "radical" Islam is on a rally, in germany it has started as well recently. The number of converts rise everywhere, and nlike with converts to any relgion, these often are even more fanatical than the already native Muslim fanatics. Public courts get besieged by Muslim charges over minimal issues and non-issues, in attempts to lock down the legal system and to gain concessions made even if it only happens on a basis for one concession won, 9 failed - the meree mass is what makes this still successful. The migration into the social seciurtioy sytem is immense, as far as Muslim mirgants are meant. Muslim mleaders in Muslim countries have annoucned sinc decades that Islam shall bring down Eurpope by "outbreeding" the local population peacefulkly, and by making the social systems collapsing, ending in a state of nations descending in riots.

Call it demographic warfare. For an ideology that sees women only as lifestock to produce future djihaddis, this is nothing unusual.

It even got announced at the UN, already in the - I think the early 70s. And still Wetserners still refuse to believe what is beign told in t heir face, smiling, and they really htink they know better what Islam "really" is than Islam itself knows.

That is the biggest case of rwality-denial I can imagine. A whole culture refuses to reralsies that it is under attack. A non-conventional attack, but still an attack.

What told an angry Turkish premier Erdoghan the West two years or so ago? "Stop differentiating between moderate and radical Islam, as if such two form of Islam had ever existed! That is an offence to all us Muslims. There is only one Islam." Not excactly in these words maybe, but very close, and identical in meaning and content.

Well. Open your eyes, that is if you have not already poked them out with a pencil.

Some quotes, since I happen to have them at hand since I am currently busy with them:

Bassam-Tibi, German Islam critic and orientalist who is very well-known over here: "Wer sich in der Islam-Diaspora Europas auskennt, weiß, dass nicht nur die Islamisten von einem islamischen, von der Scharia beherrschten Europa träumen; auch orthodoxe Moslems tun dies und rechnen Europa durch demographische Islamisierung durch Migration zum Dar al-Islam/Haus des Islam***8220;. - He calls it that: demographic Islamisation.: "When you know a bit about the Islamic diaspora in Europe, then you know that not only Islamist dream of an Islamic Europpe ruled by Shariah law, orthodox Muslims also do so, and they count Europe for the House of Islam, acchieved by demographic Islamisation."

Imam Abu Talal: "Der Terrorismus gegen die Feinde Gottes ist für unsere Religion eine Pflicht. Unser Islam ist eine Religion der Gewalt." - "Terrorism against the enemies of our God is a dutry for our relgion. Our Islam is a relgion of vioence." Well, Muhammad couldnt have put it any more precise.

14 years ago, Erdoghan said, quoting an Islamic poem: "Democracy is just the train we board to reach our destination. The mosques are our barracks, the minarets our bayonets, the cupolas our helmets and the faithful our soldiers.***8221;

The Imam of Izmir said I think in 1999 to Christian European delegation: "Dank eurer demokratischen Gesetze werden wir euch überwältigen, dank eurer religiösen Gesetze werden wir euch beherrschen." - "By your democratic laws we will overwhelm you, by your religious laws we will control you."

Again Erdoghan in 1994, the EU's great hope, hehe: "Thank God we are followers of the Shariah, our goal is the fully islamic state everywhere."

Mehmet Sabri Erbakan, former chairman of one of the biggest Muslim and ultra-nationalistic Turkish lobby groups in Germany, Milli Görus: "You Europeans seriously think that we Muslim just come to Europe to earn money! But Allah has a very different plan."

Omar M. Ahmad, chariman os the American CHAIR lobby organisation: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

Houari Boumedienne, former Algerian president, in a speech to the UN 1974: "One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."

And so many more and more and more.

What will people choose? Stand up, fight for their freeedom and give Islam the monsterous kick between the legs that it deserves - or rolling over on their backs, smiling when laying in the dust and sticking legs and arms to the air like a dog that wants to get cuddled? Chrisztians and Jews are mandatory objects of discmrination in Islam. All others either ocnvert to Islam, or must be killed. This is what the Quran demands, this is Islam. And ther eis only one Quran, and one Islam.

What Westerners call their superior culture, is corrupt, decadent, and rotten to the bone. What they call their tolerance, is the need to comply to the demand of a superior aggressor due to their own weakness. We are no longer masters in our own house, that is the sad truth. And this shabby combination, weakness and cowardice, should be the shining example that makes young, energetic, totalitarian, aggressive, powerful Islam questioning itself , taming itself, refomring itself? Hahahahaha! You get laughed in your faces, your values get trampled on, and you even kindly say "Thank You" for that! Islamic global societies are brimming with energy currently, there is an excessive overload of young males, and this demographic energy will carry on to push them for their global mission for another two generations, due to demographic dynamics. Not before then their socieites will be where we are now: having become overaged, tired, exhausted. The confrontation ith Islam will go on for as long, before the next ophase of stagnation and temportary seize-fire sets in. Either we non-Muslim countries are still there by then, or we are not. But that is the timescale in which we need to think: two generations, around 60 years.

Again Bassam Tibi: " ***8222;Man muss offen sagen, die Religion des Islam erlaubt die Integration nicht. Ein Muslim darf sich einem Nicht-Moslem nicht fügen. Wenn er in der Diaspora lebt, dann ist das eine Notsituation, und er kann sich absondern. Das besagt die normale Religion und nicht die fundamentalistische Variante." - "One has to say it plain and clear: the religion of Islam does not allow integration. A Muslim is not allowed to confrom to a non-Muslim. If he lives in the diaspora, then this is a extreme situation of extraordinary need/a situation of emergency, and he is allowed to stay separate/distanced. That is what the normal religion says (mainstream), not just a fundamentalistic variant of of it."

Well, dear Europe, I wish you good luck with that social engineering hobby and that Euro-Islam-idea of yours, it both will earn you the Darwin Award, no doubt. Send me a picture of your remains once Islam is done with you. I will post it in the newspaper, under "obituaries".

Or under "cartoons", if I feel like that on that day.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Morts

"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
--Hermann Göring

Witty quote time

One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!

I personally don't agree with all the apocalyptic drama Skybird creates but he has some very good points there.
Remember that while most muslims you may know are just people who want to get with their lifes it is usually the loud and active who dictate the policies.
Vast majority of muslims seem to be very neutral about extremism.
It is very evident by lack of any serious Muslim opposition that denounces some violent preachers. Reason might be fear or ideological conflict.
The few that manage to oppose are usually afraid for their lives...sort of remains of 1930s.....



..................

[Onkel Neal]

Al-Qaeda supporter pleads guilty to model plane plot

How about that, Skybird, my predictions only take a few days to come true!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Al-Qaeda supporter pleads guilty to model plane plot

How about that, Skybird, my predictions only take a few days to come true!

And people call me a pessimist. At least it is no B- or C-weapon plot. My nightmare would be a model plane flying down time square at new years eve, spraying. Or spraying at an international airport where people immediately are up and away, spreading "it" to all the world.

Another potentially devastatic way to spread a lethal disease: bank notes. If somebody manages to successfully infest them so that the virus or whatever it is survives on them for some time (tricky to acchieve, I read), then its XXXL-showtime.

[MH]

It may happen just like it did in japan.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Al-Qaeda supporter pleads guilty to model plane plot

How about that, Skybird, my predictions only take a few days to come true!

Is'nt it amazing how similar all these terror plots are?

1. the man is recruited by a FBI informant:

However, the affidavit also raises several questions. Few details are given as to how Ferdaus came to the attention of the FBI. Mention is only made of a co-operating witness, known as CW, who met Ferdaus in December 2010 and soon began recording his conversations.

No details are given as to CW's identity, but it is mentioned that he or she has a criminal record and has served time in prison. That raises the possibility that the CW may have had some ulterior motive to bring an alleged terror suspect to the attention of the FBI or could be an unreliable witness.

2. The FBI supplies the funds and materials:

At the same meeting the undercover agents also gave financial assistance for Ferdaus to travel to Washington on a scouting trip: a fact that raises the question of whether he would have made the trip without that financial help. The undercover agents also supplied thousands of dollars in cash for Ferdaus to buy the F-86 Sabre miniature plane to be used in an attack.

3. All of his "conspirators" in the "terror plot" are undercover FBI agents.

Anyway, as long as the American public feels safer, I guess that is all that counts.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...rezwan-ferdaus

[MH]

Its better for everyone that FBI finds those guys and not someone else or most problematic...no one.
Question is if they had given him ideological support.

Its not so much complicated plot that would be impossible without FBI help.

[MH]

Not sure if fbi involved here....

Report: Al-Qaida planning to crash U.S. airline during London Olympics
According to the Sunday Times, a Norwegian who was trained in Yemen plans to crash the plane on a suicide mission; British authorities say there is a shortage of personnel to carry out proper security screenings.


By Ofer Aderet | Jul.01,2012 | 12:57 PM



The al-Qaida branch in the Arabian Peninsula is believed to be planning a terror attack during the Olympic Games in London, scheduled to begin at the end of the month. According to a report in today's Sunday Times, quoting intelligence services, the organization has recruited a Norwegian Muslim convert who was supposed to hijack a U.S. passenger plane and crash it on a suicide mission. It is not clear though that the attack targeted one of the Olympic venues, despite the timing.
Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) has been involved in a number of attempts to carry out high-profile attacks on Western targets.
Jonathan Evans, head of MI5, Britain's domestic security service, said in a rare public address last week that "the games are not an easy target, and the fact that we have disrupted multiple terrorist plots here and abroad in recent years demonstrates that the UK as a whole is not an easy target." Despite the successes in foiling terror attacks, Evans warned that "in back rooms and in cars on the streets of this country there is no shortage of individuals talking about wanting to mount terrorist attacks here," and spoke of the threat of Western Muslim citizens who have been radicalized and trained in camps in countries such as Yemen and Sudan, traveling back to the West to carry out attacks.
According to the sources quoted in The Sunday Times, a Norwegian citizen in his mid-30s and who names himself Abu Abdulrahman converted to Islam in 2008 and has in recent months been undergoing training at AQAP bases in Yemen. There have been a number of reports over the last few months of Western citizens who joined al-Qaida and are involved in its operations in Yemen against the local Western-backed security forces.
The intelligence services believe that AQAP will try and take advantage of the fact the Norwegian has a "clean" criminal record and can travel throughout Europe with few restrictions. Around 600 thousand people are expected to be accredited to the Olympics and millions of additional tourists are expected in London over the next month. British airports are suffering from a shortage of qualified passport officers and authorities have expressed concern that the border control will be "swamped" around the Olympics and many visitors will not be sufficiently screened upon entrance.
As part of the elaborate security set-up for the Olympics, the airborne threat has also been taken into account. Anti-aircraft missile batteries have been set up in open spaces and on the roofs of apartment buildings around London, Typhoon fighter-jets have been stationed at Northolt airfield near the capital and snipers - trained to shoot down light aircraft - will operate from helicopters, taking off and landing from a battleship on the Thames. Prime Minister David Cameron will personally authorize shooting down a passenger plane believed to be on a suicide collision course. The preparations have drawn a significant amount of criticism, including from residents of one of the buildings where missiles have been stationed, and who are petitioning the court to have them removed.
Whether or not the planned attack is connected to the Olympic Games or just set to coincide with them, it is reportedly scheduled to take place during a period when western security services will be at their highest alert. The Games are also going to take place at a time when chaos in Yemen is increasing, as is the uncertainty in Saudi Arabia and the breakdown of negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

[Onkel Neal]

Drones: From War Weapon To Homemade Toy

Conservative pundit Charles Krauthammer recently called for a ban on drones in the U.S. Speaking on Fox News, Krauthammer said, "And I would predict — I'm not encouraging, but I'm predicting — the first guy who uses a Second Amendment weapon to bring a drone down that's been hovering over his house is going to be a folk hero in this country."

[frau kaleun]

I had a drone hovering over my desk at work today.










Oh no wait that was just my boss.

[CaptainMattJ.]

The Japanese had the same general attitude towards muskets and matchlocks when they first were brought to them. ZOMG its going to make us lose everything we value! Its not traditional! The unfortunate reality is, that the wrong people get their hands on the wrong thing, and then sentiment towards the technology you detested goes out the window. Id rather better people have their hands on such dangerous things to prevent dangerous men from using them unopposed. Soon we will advance to he point that either we take the halo technology path where our weapons still rely on brute ballistic might, or we discover powerful lasers and superweapons. whatever our technological advancements in weaponry may be, its always going to be bad for recipients.

Scientists talk of how our lives will be in a million years, a couple thousand years, ect. we wont live that long, IMO. We will destroy ourselves with ever more pwoerful weapons and we shall cease to be apart of this universe. So, it is inevitable.

[THE_MASK]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-1...eaches/4263948