Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine - Page 55

Jimbuna · 03-31-14, 06:32 AM

^ yeah, damage limitation/saving face is just about all the west can hope for now.

Skybird · 03-31-14, 06:47 AM

Actually, I hope for more: uf highest priority in this geographic location is: stability. This interest is international, and the need for stability emits far beyond the borders of the Ukraine in its current format.

If the Ukraine were split between pro-EU Ukraine and pro-Russia Ukraine, this could lead to a competition in economic and fiscal support from both sides much like it was the case with the ideological showcases that West and East German were turned into. It benefited the Germans in both parts of the country, Eastgermans materially were better off than any other Soviet satellite state (the GDR was the richest of the Soviet vasall nations), and Westgermany - well, the story is known.

A neutral Ukraine not being part of NATO, could serve indeed as a natural puffer zone between NATO and Russia. This is the one Russian proposal that I fully support in completeness.

The Russians want federalism understood as the provinces forming loose union of more or less sovereign states, to weaken them. I understand federalism more in the German or American way: one nation, but strong federal states. I think one could get the Russian to will negotiating the Western form of federalism for the remaining Ukraine.

Precondition of course is that the Ukrainian people finally stop voting for criminal gangster, oligarchs and fascist mobs. If they do not dispose these, than I see no reason why even a single cent should be invested for aid. Most of that cent would end up in corrupt channels anyway.

One has to face it, the Ukraine messed up since it declared independence 1991, it is pretty much a failed state currently, because it based on corrupt power structures and economically was not in shape to found that independence. It is not enough just to be independent and expecting others to maintain you. You need to be able to afford your freedom and sovereignty. You do not have claims towards others to pay for you.

The current Ukraine is a mess-up in this regard.

I oppose the Ukraine joining the EU as well. The EU already has its hands full, both of them. We are hopelessly overburdened and do not need to want shouldering new additional burdens. That's why I ask for very strict criterions to decide when what fincial aid may flow, and I mdo not want irresponsible EUphile gangsters having a word in that, because they lack all sense of resopnsibklity when it comes to the money they are burning up.

Jimbuna · 04-02-14, 07:37 AM

It may be that Sashko Bily accidentally shot himself.

Quote:

A Ukrainian far-right leader accidentally shot and killed himself during a shoot-out with police last month, an investigation has concluded.

The inquiry by the interior ministry said Oleksandr Muzychko, aka Sashko Bily, had shot himself in the heart as police tried to wrestle him to the ground during the chase.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26849934

Jimbuna · 04-02-14, 12:10 PM

Putin may have gained Crimea but he has lost his wife...I'm confident he'll be happy with the exchange.

Quote:

The Kremlin has confirmed that the divorce of Russian President Vladimir Putin from his wife of 30 years, Lyudmila, has been finalised.

The country's best-known couple, who have two daughters in their late 20s, went on TV in June to announce they were breaking up.

Mr Putin, 61, was still officially listed as "married" only last week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26850204

August · 04-02-14, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Putin may have gained Crimea but he has lost his wife...I'm confident he'll be happy with the exchange.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26850204

If she ends up dead we'll know who left who.

BossMark · 04-03-14, 02:36 AM

I see the Russian army is now conducting drills on Finland's border.

Or as Putin calls it, "window shopping."

Jimbuna · 04-03-14, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

If she ends up dead we'll know who left who.

Aye that.

Quote:

The divorce was "civilised" and the couple would "always remain close", she added.

And the band played 'Believe it if you like'.....I reckon in Russia, even his wife does as he bids.

Skybird · 04-07-14, 06:46 AM

Things are getting hot in the Donezk region. An Ukrainian army officer is claimed to have been shot by a Russian. The HQ of Ukrainian security services have been stormed. Pro-Russian activists proclaim a split of the region from the Ukraine, and ask Russia for help.

And in Brussels they are wondering why the Russians have withdrawn just one batallion from the border.

Jimbuna · 04-07-14, 10:33 AM

Loads of smoke and mirrors still to come from both sides.

mapuc · 04-07-14, 12:21 PM

Coincidence or what? The last few weeks I have been listening to an audio book "midwinter darkness" the book came out in 2009/2010 and was a futuristic scenario where Russia during the second day of Christmas 2012, begin a military attack on Sweden.

In the book a crisis between Russia and Ukraine is mentioned a few times.

Here comes the spooky part of it or is it just a coincidence?

According the the Swedish newspaper today, which have quoted the Swedish Security police.

Russia is preparing war against Sweden! (the words in the article)

According to the agency, there has been a huge increase of activity by KGB and the Military intelligence.

Markus

Skybird · 04-07-14, 12:23 PM

Any army worth its name prepares for wars all peacetime long. Don't panic.

mapuc · 04-07-14, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Any army worth its name prepares for wars all peacetime long. Don't panic.

I for one don't panic, Russia and before that the Sovjets have always had some military interest in Sweden or part of it.

Should they decide to put the things into action there's not so much Sweden can do.

Markus

Lionclaw · 04-08-14, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Should they decide to put the things into action there's not so much Sweden can do.

Markus

Indeed.

I remember when the commander in chief mentioned that Sweden could only be defended for one week on its own.

mapuc · 04-08-14, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionclaw

Indeed.

I remember when the commander in chief mentioned that Sweden could only be defended for one week on its own.

Once upon a time our royal Navy(Kungliga flottan) was something to be proud of and the same one could say about the Royal Airforce
(Kungliga flygvapnet)

Today.....?

Markus

Jimbuna · 04-08-14, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Once upon a time our royal Navy(Kungliga flottan) was something to be proud of and the same one could say about the Royal Airforce
(Kungliga flygvapnet)

Today.....?

Markus

You must be going back many years naval wise

Never knew you had an airforce

03-31-14, 06:32 AM	#811
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,181 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ yeah, damage limitation/saving face is just about all the west can hope for now. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-31-14, 06:47 AM	#812
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Actually, I hope for more: uf highest priority in this geographic location is: stability. This interest is international, and the need for stability emits far beyond the borders of the Ukraine in its current format. If the Ukraine were split between pro-EU Ukraine and pro-Russia Ukraine, this could lead to a competition in economic and fiscal support from both sides much like it was the case with the ideological showcases that West and East German were turned into. It benefited the Germans in both parts of the country, Eastgermans materially were better off than any other Soviet satellite state (the GDR was the richest of the Soviet vasall nations), and Westgermany - well, the story is known. A neutral Ukraine not being part of NATO, could serve indeed as a natural puffer zone between NATO and Russia. This is the one Russian proposal that I fully support in completeness. The Russians want federalism understood as the provinces forming loose union of more or less sovereign states, to weaken them. I understand federalism more in the German or American way: one nation, but strong federal states. I think one could get the Russian to will negotiating the Western form of federalism for the remaining Ukraine. Precondition of course is that the Ukrainian people finally stop voting for criminal gangster, oligarchs and fascist mobs. If they do not dispose these, than I see no reason why even a single cent should be invested for aid. Most of that cent would end up in corrupt channels anyway. One has to face it, the Ukraine messed up since it declared independence 1991, it is pretty much a failed state currently, because it based on corrupt power structures and economically was not in shape to found that independence. It is not enough just to be independent and expecting others to maintain you. You need to be able to afford your freedom and sovereignty. You do not have claims towards others to pay for you. The current Ukraine is a mess-up in this regard. I oppose the Ukraine joining the EU as well. The EU already has its hands full, both of them. We are hopelessly overburdened and do not need to want shouldering new additional burdens. That's why I ask for very strict criterions to decide when what fincial aid may flow, and I mdo not want irresponsible EUphile gangsters having a word in that, because they lack all sense of resopnsibklity when it comes to the money they are burning up. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-03-14, 02:36 AM	#816
BossMark Fleet Admiral Join Date: May 2011 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 15,272 Downloads: 278 Uploads: 0	I see the Russian army is now conducting drills on Finland's border. Or as Putin calls it, "window shopping." __________________ Never trust the Tories look what Thatcher and Major did in the 80s and 90s and look what the wicked witch May is doing now doing now

04-07-14, 06:46 AM	#818
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Things are getting hot in the Donezk region. An Ukrainian army officer is claimed to have been shot by a Russian. The HQ of Ukrainian security services have been stormed. Pro-Russian activists proclaim a split of the region from the Ukraine, and ask Russia for help. And in Brussels they are wondering why the Russians have withdrawn just one batallion from the border. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-07-14, 10:33 AM	#819
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,181 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Loads of smoke and mirrors still to come from both sides. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

04-07-14, 12:21 PM	#820
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,879 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Coincidence or what? The last few weeks I have been listening to an audio book "midwinter darkness" the book came out in 2009/2010 and was a futuristic scenario where Russia during the second day of Christmas 2012, begin a military attack on Sweden. In the book a crisis between Russia and Ukraine is mentioned a few times. Here comes the spooky part of it or is it just a coincidence? According the the Swedish newspaper today, which have quoted the Swedish Security police. Russia is preparing war against Sweden! (the words in the article) According to the agency, there has been a huge increase of activity by KGB and the Military intelligence. Markus

04-07-14, 12:23 PM	#821
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Any army worth its name prepares for wars all peacetime long. Don't panic. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.