What's worth more - a liner or a cruiser?

[duce_de_zoop]

Bit of a quandary I had last night.

I was patrolling in my favorite early-war spot, just west of Scapa Flow, when I suddenly a ran into a small task force of a Southampton Class, an auxiliary cruiser, and the HMS Queen of Bermuda ocean liner. Unbelievable luck with 30% fuel left. It was broad daylight, I was directly perpendicular to them, and they were zoomin', so by the time I dived and repositioned I had about a couple minutes to pick a target, grab a solution and fire off my torps.

My great dilemma - I wasn't sure whether I should hit the cruiser or the liner. They were too big, too fast, and too spread out to try to hit both, especially if I had any duds. In the end, I figured I had already sunk a cruiser - an extremely lucky magazine hit on HMS Manchester on my first patrol. So I went with the liner.

My fears were right - one dud, one miss, but two good hits on the bow. I tailed the liner for a bit before it flopped on its nose and sank. Honestly, surprised it only took two. Used my stern tube to take a pot shot at the auxiliary cruiser but missed

Anyway. On the way back I wondered - was that the right move? Like, humor me here, but for the war effort. Should I have sunk the big, juicy ocean liner just cause it looked big and juicy? Or was the cruiser a more practical target? In raw tonnage the liner is certainly bigger, but Wikipedia says it was serving as an auxiliary cruiser in the time I sunk it. Was the Southampton a bigger threat? Did I make the wrong move Kaleuns? What would Donitz think? ;_;

[Aktungbby]

...sink the liner! Liners were used in WWII as troop-transport because of their high speed capacity to avoid U-boats, and immense capacity to carry thousands of soldiers at a time to various debarcation points for offensives in North Africa and, eventually, the D-day invasion. http://nauticalnotebook.com/jun12-wa...%20sink%20them. ...a primary case in point: https://maritimearchaeologytrust.org...-Burns-WEB.pdf

763 American soldiers lost their lives, and 493 bodies were never recovered. 56 of the crew also died,
including the Captain, totalling 819. Survivors were instructed not to divulge details and soldiers were
told that they would lose their GI benefits as civilians if they did so.
News of the sinking was censored at the time, and British documents were classified until 1996.

[Hooston]

Onkel Karl would say "be more aggressive". Only in German. Probably.

You have three torpedo tubes, that's one each. They are all pretty helpless against submarines. I think historically Southampton class had a few depth charges for scare effect, and at a pinch could launch its Walrus to depth charge you; so that might be a threat, but I've never seen cruisers attack in game.

The liners and auxiliary cruisers more often than not go down with a single hit and heavy cruisers and large light cruisers seem to also sink very readily with a single hit (which is not really historically correct). In any case if you hit amidships you can always reload and finish them off later. Thanks to the dumb AI the liners and auxiliary cruisers are likely to start zigzagging and may slow down slightly after the first torpedo hits, but they will not use their full speed or change base course. Just shoot them one by one as they go past.
With the type II boat it's usual that I cripple a ship then have to sit there with no torpedoes left. I've waited DAYS in game for ships to sink and a few times have had to wait for the weather to clear so I could use up the flak ammo (to precious little effect). I understand some people like to ram, but I think that's pushing the game a little too far!
No doubt somebody will now chip in with a story about sinking a cruiser or a battleship with the flak gun.

[Shadowblade]

the one with more renown
but I guess that ocean liner / troop transport has higher priority - everything which can move troops to Europe should be eliminated.


I would try to get both. When I am not sure, I use magnetic shots to cripple the ship, because immobilised ship is easy prey.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Shadowblade

the one with more renown
but I guess that ocean liner / troop transport has higher priority - everything which can move troops to Europe should be eliminated.


I would try to get both. When I am not sure, I use magnetic shots to cripple the ship, because immobilised ship is easy prey.

Precisely! Liners capable of carrying upwards of 5,000+ troops: ie a division for a D-Day type landing are a strategic target whereas a cruser or carrier is a tactical target. The Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, RMS Britannic(Titanic's sister ship-hit a mine in the Agean Sea) and WWI's HMS Lusitania, torpedoed off Ireland, were such. Only the heavy Cruiser USS Indianapolis, transporting the atomic bomb that ended WWII, attains brief strategic status...after which it was tactically sunk on the return voyage with massive loss of life by an IJN submarine.

[Bork124]

I will attack the escortir first, it so risky when you attack the ocean liner first, the escortir will chase you...but if you rather attack the ocean liner first it will make big renown when RTB😃

[Shadowblade]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Precisely! Liners capable of carrying upwards of 5,000+ troops: ie a division for a D-Day type landing are a strategic target whereas a cruser or carrier is a tactical target. The Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, RMS Britannic(Titanic's sister ship-hit a mine in the Agean Sea) and WWI's HMS Lusitania, torpedoed off Ireland, were such. Only the heavy Cruiser USS Indianapolis, transporting the atomic bomb that ended WWII, attains brief strategic status...after which it was tactically sunk on the return voyage with massive loss of life by an IJN submarine.

yes, good written

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

5/3/1945 German ocean liner SS Cap Arcona, laden with prisoners is sunk by the Royal Air Force in the western Baltic Sea, killing 5,800. One of the largest maritime losses of life in World War II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona

Cap Arcona's final use was as a prison ship. In May 1945 she was heavily laden with prisoners from Nazi concentration camps when the Royal Air Force bombed her in the western Baltic Sea, killing about 5,000 people; with more than 2,000(7,800??!) further casualties in the sinkings of the accompanying vessels of the prison fleet, Deutschland and Thielbek. This was one of the largest single-incident maritime losses of life in the Second World War. The capsized hulk of Cap Arcona later drifted ashore, and the beached wreck was finally broken up in 1949. For weeks after the attack, bodies of victims washed ashore, where they were collected and buried in mass graves at Neustadt in Holstein, Scharbeutz and Timmendorfer Strand. Parts of skeletons washed ashore over the next 30 years, with the last find in 1971.
The prisoners aboard the ships were of at least 30 nationalities: American, Belarusian, Belgian, Canadian, Czechoslovakian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Luxembourger, Norwegian, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Spanish, Swiss, Ukrainian, and possibly others.