How in the world do you get a destroyers off your tail in GWX?

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

I remember reading something here. It was a veteran German U-Boot's crew who was testing SH3 (maybe with GWX). When he was asked if it was a realistic game, he answered : "It was so much easier in reality" ! (for the U-Boot)...

But I guess it might be extremly hard to create a good simulation, like creating a perfect 3D model of a destroyer : spending 1000 triangles to model a single porthole, and modeling every rivets...

But here is a list of what is badly missing : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=251099

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

That was Jurgen Oesten who was the technical consultant on the game. He said that in an interview, it was available at one time one time on Youtube.

I found that an interesting comment.

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

It's always a good idea to research the meaning of actual participant comments vs. taking them at face value.
I.e., with his, what did he think was easier ? Controlling the boat, issuing orders, combat, what ?
Plus, another person might have thought it was harder, i.e.

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

Agreed, as he never elaborated on the comment in the interview, as I recollect. I kind of feel that it was the computer interface and doing everything yourself as opposed to having a crew working with and for you in real time.

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

That'd be my bet too. But who knows.

Methinks his wallet knows...either in Marks, Euros or $'s which makes his 'first person-primary history source' opinion 40 years on slightly suspect when promoting a commercial endeavor such as a computer game;... but I did enjoy the interviews with Erich Topp in SH II though.

[FUBAR295]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Methinks his wallet knows...either in Marks, Euros or $'s which makes his 'first person-primary history source' opinion 40 years on slightly suspect when promoting a commercial endeavor such as a computer game;... but I did enjoy the interviews with Erich Topp in SH II though.

That is a consideration also.

Regardless, he was an interesting chap.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by FUBAR295

Regardless, he was an interesting chap.

Bottom line: any kaleün who survived the Atlantic Battle's 75% mortality rate; in, arguably, the biggest, longest single battle of WWII; is an interesting chap!

[John Pancoast]

Eetere, even the modded escorts aren't to difficult to evade especially with how silent running works in the game, plus the depth charges have been "dumbed down" in all the mods so with a little practice you'll get the hang of it.

[Schiffmorder]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

...And realistically odds were stacked against U-Boats for much of the war so badly it takes very specific type of player to have fun playing realistic U-Boat sim. The kind that thinks original X-Com series or Dwarf Fortress are fun games and losing is an exciting experience

I've honestly thought players who stick with SH3 long term (like me) must have a love of the underdog and a bit of a masochistic streak in them.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Schiffmorder

I've honestly thought players who stick with SH3 long term (like me) must have a love of the underdog and a bit of a masochistic streak in them.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Eetere

I am a brand new player to the game and had my first run in with a destroyer. Four hours later, after searching the internet for an answer and trying everything I came across, I am now dead and quitting this game unless I get this explained to me. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable about having a destroyer circle you for four hours with there being nothing able to be done about it.

Welcome to SH (be it 3,4,or 5) with mods lol. Thing is, real depth charge attacks often lasted in excess of four hours, sometimes days on end, to the point sub captains have to make the decision to surface and scuttle the boat or go out fighting. Part of the fun and challenge of the sim, is enduring the attack and just barely escaping. Should you escape and navigate the learning curve. SH 3/4/5 out of box is a light simulation, but with most mods it becomes simulation, not a shallow arcade game. Yes, a destroyer circling for hours making runs is part of the fun of the sim, the challenge. However, there are things you can do about this. Main thing, is do not give up, do not quit.

Being a simulation, you can't just go in blazing, you have to think, attack at right time and place. Shallow depths always upp the danger factor and should be avoided.

Find thermal layers, go as deep as possible, run silent, change course after each depth charge attack, never maintain same course, use bursts of speed when they are passing overhead so depth charges do not fall right on top of you. Of course have to monitor battery levels. Never attack unless have full battery charge, plenty of fresh air in boat, compressed air etc.

Navigate the learning curve and you will find you will learn the tactics used by AI. However, things, as they should, get very difficult as war goes on, thus the high uboat casualty rate. Good luck, don't give up.

[John Pancoast]

1. Go deep. Very deep, more than the actual commanders did on a routine basis but in the game you must. 230 meters + deep. Don't be afraid to experiment to find out the boat's limit which is reached when you start taking minor damage from the depths; bolts popping, etc. You'll have time to recover.
2. Set speed to one knot.
3. Have silent running always on. If you use Stiebler's silent running mod (and you should) you'll very slowly (wish it as quicker) sink in this state but that's ok. If needed, raise your boat a bit and start the process over again.
4. Set course going away from the target (convoy). After a bit, this encourages the escorts to leave.

You'll escape every time then. I.e., I routinely escape NYGM, GWX escorts with this method including several at the same time, any stage of the war.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Schiffmorder

I've honestly thought players who stick with SH3 long term (like me) must have a love of the underdog and a bit of a masochistic streak in them.

Considering that, of the 90,000 who surrendered at Stalingrad, only 5,000 came back (over 90%) opting for the Kreigmarine's U-boat arm with only a 75ish % mortality rate, better food, and not freezing while addicted to Pervitin would entice any sensible young Nazi. Strangely, the primary weapon of WWII was STARVATION; the German U-boats waging the longest tonnage Battle of the Atlantic to starve England, and the British likewise; blockading the Festung Europa...with greater success, as the American forces, incl. submarines proceded to do likewise in the Pacific, isolating island garrisons without supplies enroute to Tokyo and glorious victory. Essentially castle seige warfare on a grand scale...nothin' good militarily goes outta style!

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

1. Go deep. Very deep, more than the actual commanders did on a routine basis but in the game you must. 230 meters + deep. Don't be afraid to experiment to find out the boat's limit which is reached when you start taking minor damage from the depths; bolts popping, etc. You'll have time to recover.
....

That's why I also randomize the crush speed in the *.zon file and not only the depth. Only randomizing the depth and then being able to 'safely' test the depth is a bit boring With a randomized crush speed high enough to prevent a safe test, things become more exciting


Best, LGN1

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by LGN1

That's why I also randomize the crush speed in the *.zon file and not only the depth. Only randomizing the depth and then being able to 'safely' test the depth is a bit boring With a randomized crush speed high enough to prevent a safe test, things become more exciting


Best, LGN1

Great idea ! Off to do some editing.....

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Welcome to SH (be it 3,4,or 5) with mods lol. Thing is, real depth charge attacks often lasted in excess of four hours, sometimes days on end, to the point sub captains have to make the decision to surface and scuttle the boat or go out fighting. Part of the fun and challenge of the sim, is enduring the attack and just barely escaping. Should you escape and navigate the learning curve. SH 3/4/5 out of box is a light simulation, but with most mods it becomes simulation, not a shallow arcade game. Yes, a destroyer circling for hours making runs is part of the fun of the sim, the challenge. However, there are things you can do about this. Main thing, is do not give up, do not quit.

Being a simulation, you can't just go in blazing, you have to think, attack at right time and place. Shallow depths always upp the danger factor and should be avoided.

Find thermal layers, go as deep as possible, run silent, change course after each depth charge attack, never maintain same course, use bursts of speed when they are passing overhead so depth charges do not fall right on top of you. Of course have to monitor battery levels. Never attack unless have full battery charge, plenty of fresh air in boat, compressed air etc.

Navigate the learning curve and you will find you will learn the tactics used by AI. However, things, as they should, get very difficult as war goes on, thus the high uboat casualty rate. Good luck, don't give up.

How does one go about finding thermal layers?

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by LGN1

That's why I also randomize the crush speed in the *.zon file and not only the depth. Only randomizing the depth and then being able to 'safely' test the depth is a bit boring With a randomized crush speed high enough to prevent a safe test, things become more exciting


Best, LGN1

I use the Sh3_Cmdr Option for randomizing the crush depth. Do you happen to have any experience with this?

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

How does one go about finding thermal layers?

In SH4, you dive while at 1x TC so that you can hear the voice prompt of "Passing thermal layer", and then make a note of that. Take the boat 50-60 feet (17-19m) below that, and your shears should be below the layer also. Depending upon how a mod is set, you might be next to "invisible" below it, or barely have any help from it at all. I do not remember there being a voice prompt for that in SH3 in all the years I've played it... I don't know if it's even modeled in the game... However, in the original Silent Hunter game from SSI / Aegis, you had a "bathythermograph", a gauge that was mounted on the sub's hull sometime mid-43, and read the temperature of the water - or simulated it did anyway... You had to watch the needle move to find the thermocline layer, which varied in both depth and intensity as you moved, as in real life... so what happened with that functionality in the game from SH1 to SH2 and beyond is anybody's guess... lol - there is a formula online to estimate it by season and water depth, but I cannot find it now, and it most likely was not available to Kaleun's in the 40's anyway...

[Aktungbby]

...and I know for a firsthand fact that, submerged at 100 feet hunting 3', 40lb. Ling Cod in my Aussi neoprene (alberich??!) dive-suit, Montery Bay kelp forest water is 32F. ie: freezing The Great Whites that famously congregate there prefer a warmer higher clime and elephant seals or surfers on the surface for dining!