[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[KaleunMarco]

so there we were on patrol, doing laps around some atoll (Majuro, i think), ahead 12 kts and when we turned 90 degrees to port on our plotted route, and came to a dead stop. TC was at 1024 and the Wind was maxed, 15 m/h.

i happened to be staring at the screen...the clock is spinning at 1024 and we are stopped in the middle of a turn to port. never had that happen before.

has anyone else ever been stopped dead at 12 kts while making a turn during a gale....in SH4, of course?

[propbeanie]

Oh yes. I try to remember to not do anything beyond 90 degree turns anymore... I've even had those "stick" sometimes with the "Search Pattern" and walk away to grab a sandwich while on 1024, come back 30 seconds later and the boat is 'stuck' like that... It has usually been in rough seas, but not always. I suspect a combination of TC, shelling out, and not holding the rabbit's foot properly...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Oh yes. I try to remember to not do anything beyond 90 degree turns anymore... I've even had those "stick" sometimes with the "Search Pattern" and walk away to grab a sandwich while on 1024, come back 30 seconds later and the boat is 'stuck' like that... It has usually been in rough seas, but not always. I suspect a combination of TC, shelling out, and not holding the rabbit's foot properly...

High TC - Yes
Rough Seas/Weather - Yes
Acute Turn - Yes
Shelling to Windows - Negative
Rabbit's foot - Never believed in it.

no windows shelling.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

High TC - Yes
Rough Seas/Weather - Yes
Acute Turn - Yes
Shelling to Windows - Negative
Rabbit's foot - Never believed in it.

no windows shelling.

I suppose then laddie that the wee folk have no sway o'er your life then either?? - perhaps a pinch of salt from your right hand tossed over the left shoulder then?? hmmm???

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I suppose then laddie that the wee folk have no sway o'er your life then either?? - perhaps a pinch of salt from your right hand tossed over the left shoulder then?? hmmm???

nope.
the distaff side of my life believes in all of that feldergarb.
i lead a logical life, mostly.

no wee folk...however...if you wish to speak of a wee dram, then we can have a conversation.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I suppose then laddie that the wee folk have no sway o'er your life then either?? - perhaps a pinch of salt from your right hand tossed over the left shoulder then?? hmmm???

Would there be OTC and omnimeter in the future? Otherwise it lacks the flavor of hardcore realism.

[propbeanie]

Excuse me?? OTC is not hard-core realism... While the mod is excellent and does correct the differences between aiming over the bow as opposed to aiming over the stern, the "fix" for that is to center-mount the conns. The omnimeter in the mod is permanently attached to the text box, which is cumbersome. Like most mods for the game, it has compromises. CapnScurvy chose some elegant compromises, but they are still compromises. As a side-note, DanielCoffey re-did the sil files for most all of the ships in the mod, and did very accurate measuring of the ships, so you do have even more accurate mast / stack heights in FotRSU than even OTC had - which is also not realistic.

We did hope CapnScurvy would do an OTC version for FotRSU, but alas, he retired to the garage to work on automobiles older than I am... and more power to him! We did have plans for incorporating several more pieces of his modding work into FotRSU, but both involve the menu_1024_768.ini file, and that is a complex beast, tough to tame. We have had limited success, but alas, there are a few extra "features" we accidentally incorporated that we have to chase down yet... - there are other changes that will help lend an air of realism for the next release, and we think that most folks will like them. More later!

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Excuse me?? OTC is not hard-core realism... While the mod is excellent and does correct the differences between aiming over the bow as opposed to aiming over the stern, the "fix" for that is to center-mount the conns. The omnimeter in the mod is permanently attached to the text box, which is cumbersome. Like most mods for the game, it has compromises. CapnScurvy chose some elegant compromises, but they are still compromises. As a side-note, DanielCoffey re-did the sil files for most all of the ships in the mod, and did very accurate measuring of the ships, so you do have even more accurate mast / stack heights in FotRSU than even OTC had - which is also not realistic.

We did hope CapnScurvy would do an OTC version for FotRSU, but alas, he retired to the garage to work on automobiles older than I am... and more power to him! We did have plans for incorporating several more pieces of his modding work into FotRSU, but both involve the menu_1024_768.ini file, and that is a complex beast, tough to tame. We have had limited success, but alas, there are a few extra "features" we accidentally incorporated that we have to chase down yet... - there are other changes that will help lend an air of realism for the next release, and we think that most folks will like them. More later!

The key point of OTC is rectile correction and recognition manual with ship length. Without that, no proper manual targeting could be done. Stadimeter can't be used without lock on, very inefficient in distant measurement and multitargeting. While difference of aiming between bow and stem is so insignificant in NAVAL measurement. Dark waters has Raobf which works the same way as US submarine Attack Course Finder in 1920s. Probably to use the gramophone layer to make a double side attack course finder used as attack disc and raobf.

[propbeanie]

That's just it - the game is already too "accurate" with most everything involved. When you read the after-action War Patrol reports of the US subs when they came back in from patrol, there is one really glaring detail involved in most all of them that reported the sinking of ships. The primary symptom is the mis-identification of ships. The US skipper would say "5900 tons", and after the war, they would discover that it was actually 2200 tons. Also, the US Recognition Manual was not accurate, even with revisions as the war progressed. It couldn't be - too many ships, too many changes. Most skippers would have hand-written notes and drawings, or typed reports from other skippers used to supplement their "knowledge" found in the ONI documentation. They generally did not have the time to "properly" ID a ship anyway.

The game does not have enough ship "classes" to introduce that type of confusion. Plus, ships had alterations done on them as the war progressed, where masts were added to, and/or shortened, as well as other alterations. Physical changes in the way a ship looked would result in mis-identification, incorrect mast heights, incorrect lengths, etc. (FotRSU is highly accurate in ship dimensions already from DanielCoffey's work).

For me, the omnimeter is desirable, as is CapnScurvy's 3rd "Range" wheel, along with the Ship Length in the RecMan (why was it not there to begin with?? lol ). All of those are in continuing development, and we'll just have to see what comes of the individual attempts. As for a banjo, or is/was, there are some mods of those that might be usable in FotRSU, though I have not attempted to try one as of yet, so I have no idea which would work without complications in the mod. There are also cut-out "mods" on SubSim here that a person could use cardstock or plastic sheeting to build them for use while playing.

Your image there comes from HNSA's Attack Finder page, if you did not have that link. See also Captain Krunch's Postings, of which the HNSA links there aren't any good any longer, due to site "updates".

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That's just it - the game is already too "accurate" with most everything involved. When you read the after-action War Patrol reports of the US subs when they came back in from patrol, there is one really glaring detail involved in most all of them that reported the sinking of ships. The primary symptom is the mis-identification of ships. The US skipper would say "5900 tons", and after the war, they would discover that it was actually 2200 tons. Also, the US Recognition Manual was not accurate, even with revisions as the war progressed. It couldn't be - too many ships, too many changes. Most skippers would have hand-written notes and drawings, or typed reports from other skippers used to supplement their "knowledge" found in the ONI documentation. They generally did not have the time to "properly" ID a ship anyway.

The game does not have enough ship "classes" to introduce that type of confusion. Plus, ships had alterations done on them as the war progressed, where masts were added to, and/or shortened, as well as other alterations. Physical changes in the way a ship looked would result in mis-identification, incorrect mast heights, incorrect lengths, etc. (FotRSU is highly accurate in ship dimensions already from DanielCoffey's work).

For me, the omnimeter is desirable, as is CapnScurvy's 3rd "Range" wheel, along with the Ship Length in the RecMan (why was it not there to begin with?? lol ). All of those are in continuing development, and we'll just have to see what comes of the individual attempts. As for a banjo, or is/was, there are some mods of those that might be usable in FotRSU, though I have not attempted to try one as of yet, so I have no idea which would work without complications in the mod. There are also cut-out "mods" on SubSim here that a person could use cardstock or plastic sheeting to build them for use while playing.

Your image there comes from HNSA's Attack Finder page, if you did not have that link. See also Captain Krunch's Postings, of which the HNSA links there aren't any good any longer, due to site "updates".

You might missunderstand my point， It‘s all about maths.

Ships dimension might change during the war， but It won't affect the solution result that much in Naval practice.

You also mentioned Skipper misidentified ship but still hit the target. So why would he get it wrong in the first place? Because the real target is about the same size and shape, most of all, the ratio of length and height. With the close length and height, you got almost the same solution. That's why ship length is so important and should be not missed in recognition manual. The real Uboat commander even don't recognize the exact class of ship but use length in periscope ratio to estimate range and it's in their doctrine. Bear in mind torpedoes are very expensive ammo, one single standard straight run torpedo worths 1/4 of a fighter plane of that time. So all crews are trained to use all possible ways to increase hit chance, estimation is allowed only if the error is mathmatically in tolerance range, no hollywood gunfight style shooting is allowed in any country.

On the otherhand, with length provided, you could get data in seconds at any time interval instead of minutes with strict time limit. Usurally I play Uboat and TWOS in real navigation without use the stadimeter. I write down targets dimension and draft on a paper, count peri reticle mark and use smartphone‘s calculator to get the result quite fast. Still with system error because of optical estimation deviation , so no such thing like " the game is already too "accurate" Just try to shoot convoy from over 3000 meters，that is the range you need for a night surface attak of a convoy without being chased by escout. you will find yourself definitely missfire even with slight miscalculation of speed or AOB, using stadimeter to cal is too slow that just can't catch up with the little change in formation. the range error on the other hand is tolerable.

That's why almost all Sub sim provided ship's lentgh except Sh4, which is ridiculous in the first place, and the stock cfg contains length data ,which make the whole situation more ridiculous.

[propbeanie]

I understand about the math, though it does tend to cause me headaches... lol - Ship Length should have been in the RecMan, and that should be doable, so long as I don't mess it up too badly. The other features from OTC are pinch more difficult to implement, but we're trying...

[Larrywb57]

 

18Dec1943 USS Balao out of Pearl Harbor Longitude 131°06E Latitude 06° 17'N. Convey of five ships with one rocking and rolling from port to starboard heading in a WNW direction.

Mod list as follows:
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\Wolves of the Pacific\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v1.8
101_FotRSUv18_FixPak
Nippon_Maru_v1.9_FotRSU
Nihon Kaigun v1.3a_FotRSU
Combined Roster
451a_TMOstyle_NavMapDots_Nippon_Maru
451b_TMOstyle_NavMapDots_Nihon_Kaigun
454_EasyAOB_FotRSU + Manual Range and Mast Height Dial Fix
FOTRSU Position Keeper Tweak
TestCommands

[propbeanie]

OK, right in the middle of looking for any suspects, the power went out here, but we are back online finally... from what I can see, there are some possible suspects in several files, with the primary suspect being the 43a_Jap_Convoys_028, which consists of a Generic Cargo @ 100%, a Generic DE @ 100%, a Generic Cargo @ 80%, another @ 60%, a Generic Tanker @ 70%, a Red Cross Transport @ 65% and a generic DE @ 10%. Is that possibly it? It originates at Truk and goes basically west, but zig zags, so could well be going west southwest when you encountered it. Did you happen to ID any of the ships in the convoy?? There is also a Cruiser Task Force that might travel in the area, if you had a lot of DD and several CA and CL with possibly a tanker or two, and a freighter or two...

[Larrywb57]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

OK, right in the middle of looking for any suspects, the power went out here, but we are back online finally... from what I can see, there are some possible suspects in several files, with the primary suspect being the 43a_Jap_Convoys_028, which consists of a Generic Cargo @ 100%, a Generic DE @ 100%, a Generic Cargo @ 80%, another @ 60%, a Generic Tanker @ 70%, a Red Cross Transport @ 65% and a generic DE @ 10%. Is that possibly it? It originates at Truk and goes basically west, but zig zags, so could well be going west southwest when you encountered it. Did you happen to ID any of the ships in the convoy?? There is also a Cruiser Task Force that might travel in the area, if you had a lot of DD and several CA and CL with possibly a tanker or two, and a freighter or two...

Yes, the ships are in single file with DE Tachibanna class leading, Anastasia Maru second, the Hostital ship at third, fourth is CH 28 Class Sub Chaser and in last place, the Taito Maru, which is the one that is riding high and wobbling side to side, which is possibly from a few broken cases of Sake.

[Imarider]

Hello, all. I have the question, there are ships patroling close to harbours in JapanHarborTrafic.mis files, they deleting on last waypoint and spawn again in repeat interval (as i understand). Why not just loop the last waypoint and set the same (900h) interval as docked ships, is it have influence on game performance?