Wuhan virus 2020

[Skybird]

We have lived with pandemics for which we foudn no vaccine and cure until today, HIV, for exmaple. The problem is HIV is not, by far not as infectous as Covid 19. You do not get HID jjust becasue somebody is breathing out or says a sentence, takes bit more to get HIV. Covid-19: meet an infected, stay int he same supermaket like him for long enough, and you are screwed.


The economy cannot stay put endlessly, that is clear. And that was never the goal with flattening the curve, the goal was to win time and to keep the number of seriously ill below a treshhold where they start to drown the health system.


Maybe some people have not thought it to the end what this means: it means we need to adapt to a way of oliving that accepts that Covid-19 is always present and will take a bite at the society constantly, always. Becasue now that easing the the parole of the moment, numbers will go up again. And 3 in 20 will become ill enough that they need to get hospitalised, they will suffer, miserably, and will fight for their lifves.



We will need to accept that Covid-19 now is a potentially omni-present witness at whatever we do and whereever we are. Each of us needs to come to terms with this uncomfortable truth. I have no answer to how to deal with this. I understand the owner of a restaurant who sees his economic existence threatened, and I have sympathy with him. But I have also sympathy with my own interest to minimise the risk for me to be exposed, you will not see me in a restaurant therefore. I know that all restaurants will die if everybody does like me. Does this morally oblige me to go there? No doubt, no, it doesn't. But its a classical dilemma, of the sort we are not used to be confronted with anymore in our wellplanned lives and comfortable Western societies. I saw this fro very early on, thats why I said very early alreaedy that the old world is dead and that we will not get back our old lives. Because its not just restaurants, its everybody who needs to accept exposing himself just to make the money for his living, in bureaus, in teams where close contact at work cannot be avoided, in closed halls and rooms with aerosols staying in the air for hours. It affects everybody.



Practice modesty and be thankful for what you have, if it is somethign that allows you to stay away and not needing to risk your health for a living. Many cannot. And there is little we can do for these. But we can be kind and understandable, letting Covid teach us a bit more of politeness and friendliness again that often was missed in the past. Many people run around and think that career or money defines their status and importance, and eveybody earning less deserving lesser politeness. They are wrong.



I expect Covid-19 becoming part of our daily disease canon, it will not go away. We will leanr soon enough in what kind of wave patterns it will stay with us. But staying it will, probbaly even beyond a vaccine. IF we get a vaccine, I think we will, but certain it is not.



I think also, like Bill Gates, who for reasons that are beyond me gets incredibly demonised over all this, that Covid-19 will be the starting shot for several big revolutions in medicine and the production of pharmaceuticals, namely vaccines, and the research done on virusses. If Covid-19 would not serve as a wakeup call there - what else would it take then...?


Take your Vitamine D (and K and Magnesium) to improve your chances in case you meet Mr. and Mrs. Bug. It might make the difference between getting the uig or not, and if you get it, it might make the difference between suffering a mild or severe form of it, Take any dose you fell comfrotable with, but for heavens sake: take at least some dose of it. Vit-C might be of use, too, but Vit D seems to be more important in this Covid 19 mess. Zinc longines may be helpful a bit, too, but this is uncertain. If not taking more than one or two longines with 5mg per, it at least cannot do damage. Avoid crowds and groups, be anti-social. Wear masks in closed compatements and shops, and that means masks that protect not just the others, but also yourself!! Wash your ahdns often, keep 8-10 meters distance outside, if you can, avoid the "exhaust" of people running, bicycling or walking in front of you, never have the wind in your face when facing somebody. These are the active things everybody of us can do. So: do them.

[Skybird]

Reflections.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/16/t...ntl/index.html

[Mr Quatro]

Here's a clue to how the virus gets spread ... not that we didn't already know this, but proof is in the making when it included jails and nursing homes.

The virus doesn't really care who you are it just cares that you were next in a closed environment like a jail or nursing home or cruise ship.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...ronaviruslinks

This is from one County in California Orange County south of LA

Of the more than 3,900 people of the county's 3.1 million residents who have had known infections of the virus,
407 individuals have been residents of skilled nursing facilities and 331 have been Orange County jail inmates.

easy to see that the people living in close proximity to each other represent almost 10%

As of Thursday, the county had reported nearly 4,000 cases and 80 deaths.
By contrast, Los Angeles County has more than 35,000 cases and more than 1,700 deaths;
Riverside County has recorded 5,400 cases and 235 deaths.

PS That barber in NY that defied the authorities on closing down has now contracted Covid-19
Sin will bite you in the butt if your not careful

[Skybird]

Air currents, airflow. Its amazing how late they start to discuss this and realise how important this is as an infection vector. It was one of the first things that deeply worried me, from beginning on.



Breathing out, talking, as well.



This should have become common understanding already in early March, if not by experimental evidence than as a precautionary assumption to base on until proven wrong. Instead, many - even medical experts and virologists - even actively denied it...!



But here is where, in my impression, a big problem with many of those experts is: to not look at reality and see it with pragmatic eyes in the first, but instead not taking something as recommendable precautionary advice until it has been empirically proven in a study. It seems that precautionary assuming the virus to be dangerous in this or that regard, ranked very low on many experts' list. While from a theoretical-methodological standpoint I absolutely agree with that, and in an acadmeic paper I would discourage to argue that somethign is fact as long as it has not been proven. But I also see the need to deal with practical reality with life and health at risk, and this absolute refusal of assumptions about possible AND LIKELY threats is a bit like not fastening the seat belt when beginnign to drive in the car until you have evidence that getting involved in a car accident is the imminent fate of yours: sealed and proven and beyond doubt. Much of the endlessly delayed advices and recommendations we have gotten late in the media over here, may be due to this. Also, fear of decision makers to expose themselves and being called to responsibility if they rang wrong alarm bells.

[mapuc]

Some numbers from Denmark and Sweden.

Denmark(population 5,806 million)
(Information taken from 15 May-20):
Confirmed infected with Corona virus 10.858(+78 more than the day before)
Dead 543 (Zero(0)since the day before).
People who have had Corona and are now free = 9.107

Sweden(population 10,23 millions)
(Information taken from 15 May-20)
Confirmed infected with Corona virus 29.677(+ 625 more than the day before)
Dead 3.674(+117 Since the day before)
People who have had Corona and are now free = 4.971

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Ought oh proof you can get it a second time


Navy aircraft carrier sailors get virus for second time

https://www.kcci.com/article/sailors...time/32500129#

Five sailors on the U.S. aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy.

The resurgence of the virus in the five sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt underscores the befuddling behavior of the highly contagious virus and raises questions about how troops that test positive can be reintegrated into the military, particularly on ships.


All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two before they were allowed to go back to the ship.

[mapuc]

In a response to my latest comment, Rockstar said among others,
think we over reacted

This made me wonder..

If we take UK/Britain and look at their worst influenza season-who many got infected and how many lost their life to this virus ?
(Have tried to find information)
(Do remember-there wasn't any lock down during an influenza season)
Due to this Corona virus, there have been lock down and social distance and still more than 31.000 have died from this Corona and in lesser month than an influenza seasons

Or we can take Italy as an example.

In their worst influenza season-almost 25.000 Italian died from this virus
(Same here-no lock down)

I can't say if we have over reacted or not.
I could have misunderstod the statistic.

Markus

[ikalugin]

Some interesting updates from Moscow regional government:
https://www.sobyanin.ru/koronavirus-novaya-programma-issledovaniy-immuniteta
https://www.mos.ru/news/item/74134073/
Moscow mayor claims:
- lifting lockdown early opens up Moscow for the second wave
- they are doing over 40k PCR tests daily but this is not enough to get a good understanding on who is infected
- with IgM and IgG markers you can test people who either have the infection or who have immunity
- by the end of May there would be 200k daily tests of this type using automatic machines
- now (as in mid May) they are going to do 70k tests every 3 days using a randomised lottery system
- weekly stats would be published 2k people already tested in the first batch (testing started yesterday)

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

There are times when I wish I had an education in some specific fields.

Lately I wish I had an education in Psychology.

Why ?

Since start of this Corona and our governments plan on this smartphone apps to track infected people, which they want their citizens to download and use.
People have protested against this mostly on FB.

Some weeks ago I read a comment in a friends bulletin, where he wrote
Never will I let the Danish Stasi monitor every step I take.

Few days later I could see same person had put a notice on FB.
Friend has (forgot what you call this)but this friends friend had "logged" on some fitness or was it at some restaurant(there was a picture for some map)

What !? He don't want the Danish government, who have to follow strict regulation, track him, but do not hesitate to give all information to FB, who gladly would give this information to third and fourth part.

I don't understand people.

Markus

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by mapuc

What !? He don't want the Danish government, who have to follow strict regulation, track him, but do not hesitate to give all information to FB, who gladly would give this information to third and fourth part.

I don't understand people.

Markus

Does FB have the ability to, take his property or throw him in jail? There's your difference.

Think of it this way, FB has only been around for 16 yrs, whereas "governments" have been around for a couple of thousand and every one of them has had their own abuse of power scandals.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

There are times when I wish I had an education in some specific fields.

Lately I wish I had an education in Psychology.

Why ?

Since start of this Corona and our governments plan on this smartphone apps to track infected people, which they want their citizens to download and use.
People have protested against this mostly on FB.

Some weeks ago I read a comment in a friends bulletin, where he wrote
Never will I let the Danish Stasi monitor every step I take.

Few days later I could see same person had put a notice on FB.
Friend has (forgot what you call this)but this friends friend had "logged" on some fitness or was it at some restaurant(there was a picture for some map)

What !? He don't want the Danish government, who have to follow strict regulation, track him, but do not hesitate to give all information to FB, who gladly would give this information to third and fourth part.

I don't understand people.

Markus

I have a diploma in psychology, but I dont understand people either!

[Moonlight]

Coronavirus pre-adapted to human transmission, if this is true China has some explaining to do.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/116410...et-killer-bug/

[Jimbuna]

Former President Barack Obama addresses the US high school class of 2020, marking graduation in lockdown.
He also criticises his successor, President Donald Trump, for his handling of the pandemic response.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson acknowledges frustration over the "complex" easing of England's lockdown.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer calls for a unified approach from the four UK nations to relaxing lockdown.

Eurovision stars past and present joined a show on Saturday, the night this year's cancelled contest would have taken place.

Italy is taking a "calculated risk" in easing its lockdown measures, PM Giuseppe Conte admits.

More than 311,000 people globally have now died and more than 4.6 million are infected - Johns Hopkins University.

[Jimbuna]

UK Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove has said he is "confident that children and teachers will be safe" when returning to schools in England adding that the reopening would be “staged and careful”.

Spain, one of the world's worst-hit countries by coronavirus, has released its latest figures which show its daily death toll dropped below 100 for the first time in two months.

Germany's Bundesliga resumed on Saturday, becoming the first major European league to return to action since lockdown restrictions began.

Religious services have resumed in parts of Australia seven weeks after lockdown measures were introduced.

Kenya has closed its land borders with Tanzania and Somalia except for cargo transport. Testing for the coronavirus at border posts will be compulsory for all drivers.

Qatar has made the wearing of face masks compulsory, with anyone defying the order facing a jail term of up to three years or a fine of up to $55,000 (£45,000) for those who repeatedly fail to cover up.