[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[stanger]

The default TMO crew management eliminates that little RPG element the game had. That is how I look at it, cause I don't know much about real life US Navy ranks - how it worked during ww2. So, I changed the same settings as you - max officers and petty officers for each sub (did that before starting new campaign), and its more interesting now - I have some say when it comes to qualifications. A sailor reloading (and maintaining) torpedoes for 4 years, in war conditions, surely can be named a specialist in that task.
We only need to look at the speed the game is giving promotions - it shouldn't be too fast (or too slow).

[Hylander_1314]

Good catch there Roger!

And yes, you are correct about ratings and rank. The Silent Service was definitely not the norm compared to their surface running counterparts in the Navy. It was a very specialized service, that was tough to even get into, as a high percentage of volunteers didn't make it through the initial training.

When I was a teen, I had the priviledge of talkin' with a buddy's uncle who served on subs in the war, and he said you had to, (at least on his boat) do something really really stupid to lose your rating.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by stanger

The default TMO crew management eliminates that little RPG element the game had. That is how I look at it, cause I don't know much about real life US Navy ranks - how it worked during ww2. So, I changed the same settings as you - max officers and petty officers for each sub (did that before starting new campaign), and its more interesting now - I have some say when it comes to qualifications. A sailor reloading (and maintaining) torpedoes for 4 years, in war conditions, surely can be named a specialist in that task.
We only need to look at the speed the game is giving promotions - it shouldn't be too fast (or too slow).

Crew Management, in the plain vanilla or TMO game, can only 'simulate' proper advancement in ratings. Such as: You recruit a SR into your crew while in port. Your only choice of where this guy will go on the 'Watch, Station and Quarters Bill' is to rely on his 'Qualifications'. If I want a guy for the deck gun, I'll take a close look at who has the best 'Guns' qualifications, then pick the best qualified candidate for that position. The 'Leadership' qualification is a secondary, but important, consideration since all Petty Officers are considered a 'Leader'.

Once crewed, advancement seems fairly automatic, also fairly true in the real world. An SR will advance to SA after the first patrol, then to SN after the next. The same seems fairly true for the Petty Officers, but just a little slower. A PO3 will advance to PO2, then to PO1 fairly steadily with no interaction from the 'Captain'. SN to PO3, or PO1 to Chief, Chief to Officer, or Officer advancement, is about the only time the 'Captain' is asked to pass out the Promotions. There are usually too few 'Promotions' available for the number of qualified candidates.

The real bug-a-boo comes when you have a whole boatload of First Class Petty Officers with a Chief or Officer as the head of every section. My 'best' solution is to promote, then send this highly qualified individual on to another boat, then recruit a new SR for the last man's position, moving everyone up in the 'food chain' for that section. Have you ever noticed that when you move a man, even in the same section, he takes a 'hit' on Effectiveness?

In the Real World, it was common to transfer 1/4 to 1/3rd of the crew to another boat upon return from patrol. After all, Electric Boat was cranking out 5 subs per month, and qualified crews were much in need for them. It would be real nice in this game if it would 'randomly transfer' a similar number of crew to simulate this situation. Many times, your Executive Officer would be transferred to 'New Construction' or another command (with your recommendation). But since the XO isn't designated in this game (or the Chief of the Boat for that matter), how do you know WHO your XO is?

Just a few 'philosophical' thoughts on my part.

Good Hunting!

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Good catch there Roger!

And yes, you are correct about ratings and rank. The Silent Service was definitely not the norm compared to their surface running counterparts in the Navy. It was a very specialized service, that was tough to even get into, as a high percentage of volunteers didn't make it through the initial training.

When I was a teen, I had the priviledge of talkin' with a buddy's uncle who served on subs in the war, and he said you had to, (at least on his boat) do something really really stupid to lose your rating.

Something seldom mentioned is that to gain 'The Order of the Dolphin' (granted the Dolphin insignia for the uniform), a man (enlisted or officer) had to be qualified to stand any watch, and know every valve and lever and pipe in every compartment on the boat. On top of that, the man would have to re-qualify on a new boat upon transfer. Not every man on a submarine got to wear the Dolphins.

Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, a WWI submariner who rose to commander-in-chief of the Pacific sub fleet during World War II, said this:

"The tasks of diving, attack and surfacing take scores of interlocking motions by dozens of crewmen with split-second timing, but more is required of submariners. They must be alert without being brittle, interested in their shipmates without being nosy, respect privacy without being seclusive, talk without being gabby, and be friendly without being tail-waggers - in short, round pegs for very closely machined round holes. The wrong kind of man aboard a sub can be an insufferable thorn in the sides of shipmates. He can, emotionally, cause almost as much damage as an enemy depth bomb .... In no other branch of military service are men required to remain away from normal human contacts as long as submariners assigned to lengthy patrols that demand long hours - sometimes days - at depths far below the least glimmer of sunlight and far away from the natural feel and smell of natural air. Moreover, these conditions must be endured with good cheer in overcrowded, sometimes ill-smelling, dew-dripping, steel compartments. Those whose tempers or temperaments cannot stand the strain are soon eliminated."

So rigorous was the selection and training process for Submarine School, during the course of World War II, only 2,000 officers and 22,000 enlisted volunteers, highly qualified men, graduated from "Spritz's Navy", out of over 250,000 men who had applied for entry into the Navy's Silent Service. Chief Torpedoman Charles Spritz was the Submarine Training School Master. I haven't been able to find his years of service in this position. (REF: http://www.northofseveycorners.com/h...mem/spritz.htm )

I still have one friend left over from my school days that served on both diesel boats and nukes. He said that nuke boats were only a little less cramped than diesels.

[Hylander_1314]

Dad was on nuke boats in the early 60s. Got his discharge papers 2 weeks before he was supposed to report for duty on the Thresher.

I had all his papers, but those and many other family things went bye-bye after my ID theft ordeal, and the loss of the house.

But I do remember kinda like Kodak stills in my memory, when mom and I went to meet him coming in, and I was a little over 2 years old, and his skipper saw him pick me up, and waved for him to bring me on deck, and he told Dad to take me bellow and show me around.

I have memories of the silos, and the galley, and the torpedo room, and the state rooms for the officers. So it was cool to get a little tour of a boat, though I don't remember a whole lot, but Dad seemed rather popular with the Officers and NCOs, so that was fun.

[seaplate hitman]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Something is definitely amiss if you are having issues with your keyboard. And to get a replacement thinking it was a bad board, to have the same issue, is really frustrating.

It shouldn't be an issue with your games. Since both SH3 and SH4 are doing it, ...............it could be something Windows.

To be of help, could you give us a little info on your computer and the SH3 and SH4 games?

What are the specs on your computer? What version of Windows do you have, and and where did you install the game files to?

Oh, and is your keyboard a wireless version? I had a couple snags with mine when I first got it, but I had to go into the keyboard / mouse software and make a couple adjustments.

Also, your versions of SH3 and SH4, are they disk (DVD) versions, or download versions?

That would help us to help you get it figured out.

Thank you very much for kindly help.
I have solved all problems through making a reinstallation of my Windows.

[Hylander_1314]

Good to know! Glad you got it figured out!

It can be maddening sometimes, especially when it's Windows, and not the game!

[Lupo]

hi!

is there a way to get e new update???...........so you are working on this good mod??

Lupo!

[Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by Lupo

hi!

is there a way to get e new update???...........so you are working on this good mod??

Lupo!

If you are asking about TMO, the current version is 2.5, whih should be in the downloads section here at Subsim.

[stanger]

Anyone have any info on why sub propellers are misaligned in TMO. I just did a quick look at it in s3d on both TMO and stock sub dat files, and propellers in TMO are a little bit off. Or is my game files broken? Or maybe it was done on purpose to bypass some issue?

[Hylander_1314]

Don't know. I never really noticed it, but see if you can get them properly aligned. The only ones I have noticed, are a couple merchants that have screws misaligned so they appear to wobble when the prop is rotating.

Can't remember right off which one(s) it is though.

[Maynd]

Great mod. But i have a questions, is there possible to insert playable suface ships in this mod?

[stanger]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Don't know. I never really noticed it, but see if you can get them properly aligned. The only ones I have noticed, are a couple merchants that have screws misaligned so they appear to wobble when the prop is rotating.

Can't remember right off which one(s) it is though.

Forget that, they are where they suppose to be in game. They arent aligned in dat file (but are right in stock dats), so getting them right would be easy - just copy x, y, z values from stock dat and job done, but since in game everything is alright, its better to not touch this as I suppose someone had good reason to do it this way.
But theres another issue (well known) - after taking damage crew is screaming for the rest of the patrol. It's like the game is not updating boat and\or crew state, or that crew state is in some kind of loop. Which file may be responsible for that?

[Tempest555]

Originally Posted by stanger

Forget that, they are where they suppose to be in game. They arent aligned in dat file (but are right in stock dats), so getting them right would be easy - just copy x, y, z values from stock dat and job done, but since in game everything is alright, its better to not touch this as I suppose someone had good reason to do it this way.
But theres another issue (well known) - after taking damage crew is screaming for the rest of the patrol. It's like the game is not updating boat and\or crew state, or that crew state is in some kind of loop. Which file may be responsible for that?

HAHAHA I did the Bungo Pete Mission last night-it was a real knife fight -and yeah I did it just like the Run Silent Run Deep movie-I got close enough head on to the AKIKAZE to get some shell damage as we cleared the bridge (my scope was ALREADY up to as we went to periscope depth with a charging AKIKAZE with a bone in it's teeth)-anyhoodles the voice file clicks in where the officer in the control room is shouting commands (maybe when we took damage the shouting orders ogg kicked in. He shouts commands as I'm knife fighting the AKIKAZE, when I sink the AKIKAZE (a very lucky shot to), when I go south to toodle down the coast, when I run into an IJN auxilary subchaser near a harbor, when I sink that subchaser, when I investigate the harbor at sunset (oh it was shallow to), when I put torpedoes in docked merchants, as we sail into the sunset..... Any command I give he replies with a shouted reply repeating it. It's like WTF shut up already we're silent running HAHAHAHA.

[stanger]

But when I think I need to go back and complete that patrol... With the boat full of histerical crew.

But it is what Roger Dodger was talking about - these men would never be allowed in submarine service; I think I will get rid off them as soon as I dock.


BTW, what are AnimGraphs files responsible for? I found a lot of "StateEntries" in them (like stalker, hunter and prey).