Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Sky, I'm trying to get you to understand. It isn't about Right and Wrong, its about Geography.

If Ukraine launched ICBMs at Russia, they would know the bombs went off after their own people started to die. Look at a map.

This is why India and Pakistan going nuclear never really made sense. Deterrence doesn't work if you have to kill yourself in the process.

Now, look at the US and the old USSR. We were separated by a large ocean and most of central Europe.

Now, do you understand?

nuclear deterrance is NOT about winning nuclear war, but to guarantee that the other side looses as well. They kill us, but afterwards or simultaneously get killed themselves as well. By that inevitability the other side preferrably chooses to not start playing "thermonuclear war". It cannot be won. You can only win nuclear war if you have nukes, and the other has none.


The deterring effect lies in the old MAD doctrine: MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION. This is what keeps both sides from striking nuclear first: and so prevents a nuclear exchange. Or in WOPR's eternal words: "A strange game. The only way to win is not to play."

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The question for me is

Would Russia have invaded Ukraine, if Ukraine had nukes ?

Markus

probably yes, but their threatening of nuclear weapon use if they do not get their will, would be not credible.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Olaf Scholz says Vladimir Putin does not see war as mistake

Russian President Vladimir Putin does not realise the invasion of Ukraine is a mistake, German chancellor Olaf Scholz has said, after the leaders spoke on the phone on Tuesday.

Speaking to reporters on Wednesday, Mr Scholz said he urged Mr Putin to withdraw troops and re-enter talks with Ukraine during the 90-minute call.

He called for Russia to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine.

The chancellor has come under pressure to increase military support for Kyiv.

Mr Scholz said the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine would be the only way for "peace to have a chance in the region".

Although he said Mr Putin "unfortunately" had not changed his position on the invasion, Mr Scholz emphasised the importance of continuing to talk to him.

"It is right to speak with each other and to say what there is to say on this subject," Mr Scholz said.

He also claimed the weapons Germany had supplied to Ukraine had been "decisive" and "made the difference" in eastern Ukraine.

The Ukrainian foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, has criticised Germany for not sending more weapons. He wrote on Twitter on Tuesday that Ukraine needed more military support "to liberate people and save them from genocide".

"Not a single rational argument on why these weapons can not be supplied, only abstract fears and excuses. What is Berlin afraid of that Kyiv is not?" he added.

Commenting on the phone call with Mr Scholz, the Kremlin blamed Ukraine for the continued violence.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February has challenged Berlin's long-standing diplomatic approach towards Moscow - on whose oil and gas its economy has recently relied.

And earlier this year, Mr Scholz reversed a decades-long German policy of military restraint by announcing the country would seek to spend 2% of GDP on military spending, in keeping with Nato targets.

By August Germany had donated more than $1.2bn in military aid to Kyiv - a significant sum but far lower than the UK and US, and even less than Poland, which has a smaller economy.

On Wednesday Germany's Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht pledged additional weapons to Ukraine, in addition to the generators, winter clothes, and tents already promised last week as the colder months approach.

Speaking to Reuters, Ms Lambrecht described Ukraine's ongoing counter-offensive as a "remarkable" success, although stressed it was too early to anticipate how Russia would respond.

"This proves that the Ukrainian forces are very well positioned tactically, and that they are capable of repelling attacks that not many had thought them capable of," she said.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62907923

[mapuc]

Looks like one of you could be right. The one who mentioned Putin could use nuke

Russian president Vladimir Putin could deploy a nuclear strike against Ukraine after suffering humiliating defeats on the battlefield, a former senior US diplomat has warned.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2166174.html

Markus

[Skybird]

Referring to this:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...postcount=6318
----------------------
FOCUS writes:


x-US commander-in-chief dissects testimony of German inspector general

13:26: Ben Hodges was once commander-in-chief of U.S. forces in Europe. In a Twitter post, the ex-military man now sharply criticizes the German Armed Forces' Inspector General, Eberhard Zorn. According to Hodges, Zorn recently presented an "astonishingly poor analysis" of the Russian military. This analysis would show the thinking in large parts of the German elite.

In an interview with FOCUS, Zorn had expressed skepticism that the Ukrainian counteroffensive would ultimately succeed. He said the army was acting wisely, but it was uncertain whether they really had the strength for a counteroffensive. Zorn spoke of a necessary 3-to-1 personnel superiority for victory.

Zorn went on to say that Putin might open a second front - possibly in "Kaliningrad, the Baltic Sea, the Finnish border, or Georgia or Moldova." Hodges responded to this as well. Finland would "single-handedly destroy Russia," Hodges said. Lithuania and Poland could "choke" Kaliningrad in a week. "After all, the Russian navy is even hiding behind Crimea, although the Ukrainians don't even have a navy."
----------------

[Skybird]

Meine Fresse, was für ein Rohrkrepierer.



Although he is openly confronted now by his foreign minister, and the Greens, and the Liberals and the CDU, and was recently brusquely and clearly rebuffed by Washington's ambassador in Berlin who rejected his claim that he acts in coordination with the US when refusing delivery of tanks to Ukraine, Bubble Olaf, this sad carricture of a wannabe statesman, has today once again ruled out a German permission for exports of armour to the Ukraine.



If he ever thinks about a new job, I recommend a career as a hot air dryer. Moving hot air is something he's really great at.



He is disgusting. The further erosion of Germany's reputation is stunning. Recent comments by NATO'S Stoltenberg indicate a clear loss of trust in Germany on side of the alliance.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Putin-Xi talks: Russian leader reveals China's 'concern' over Ukraine

Vladimir Putin has acknowledged China's "concern" over Ukraine, in his first face-to-face talks with President Xi Jinping since the Russian invasion.

But speaking in Uzbekistan, Mr Putin also thanked China for its "balanced position" - and said US "attempts to create a unipolar world" would fail.

Mr Xi said China was willing to work together with Russia as "great powers".

China hasn't endorsed Russia's invasion but has grown trade and other ties with Moscow since it was launched.

The two leaders' meeting on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) summit in Samarkand comes at a crucial point in the Ukraine war, as Russian troops lose ground in parts of the country.

"We highly value the balanced position of our Chinese friends when it comes to the Ukraine crisis," Mr Putin told Mr Xi, on only his second foray abroad since February's invasion.

Revealing that China had "questions and concern" about the situation in Ukraine, he said he understood.

"During today's meeting, we will of course explain our position," Mr Putin said.

The invasion has plunged Moscow into its worst crisis with the West since the Cold War and has sent global food and energy prices soaring.

It also poses a huge challenge for China - whose relations with the West have nosedived in recent years over issues including human rights and the future of Taiwan.

Mr Putin and Mr Xi have met dozens of times over the years but their latest talks received particular scrutiny.

Their growing relationship - which they characterise as a bulwark to Western dominance - signifies a major shift in the world order following the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991.

The roles are reversed now, with China the dominant partner, having risen to become an economic superpower.

"Putin is getting more out of it than Xi - Russia is quite isolated internationally," Professor Emeritus Rosemary Foot, a senior research fellow in international relations at Oxford University, told the BBC.

"So it's important to show that China is a supportive partner, not an ally but certainly a supportive actor. There is a close relationship."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62912892

[Jimbuna]

Russia shall understand that its demands to Ukraine cannot be met, - Scholz said

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz believes that Russia should withdraw its troops from Ukraine and agree to peace talks.

He stated this at a press conference in Kyiv, as Censor.NEТ informs with reference to Іnterfax-Ukraine.

"Russia shall understand that it has no right to achieve what it wants: the demands it makes to Ukraine cannot be met. And Ukraine needs significant assistance - both financial and military. And it is necessary for Russia to withdraw its troops, and agree to peace talks," - Scholz said.

He noted that only Ukraine, its president, parliament and the Ukrainian people can decide what is important to them.

"And we can only agree to peace as they see it", the German chancellor said. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3348432

[Rockstar]

Germany will provide Ukraine with 2 more Mars II MLRS and 50 Dingo vehicles, which it previously refused to send. Additionally, 200 rockets will be provided German Defense Minister said as Zeit reports https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/09/...aine/?swcfpc=1. Time will tell if this more hot air ?????

But don’t forget Germany has sent to troops to Lithuania ‘AGAIN’ but this time to help bolster NATO defense of the region. Their airforce is also loaded for bear flying guard duty the Baltic region.

At least they’re doing something . But I gotta admit it must be frustrated to hear of Bubble Olaf’s empty promises and hot air. But that’s something you Germans need to remedy, not me.

[Jimbuna]

IAEA demands that Russia withdraw its troops from ZNPP, - resolution

The Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which consists of representatives of 35 UN member states, on Thursday adopted a resolution demanding that Russia end its occupation of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

26 countries voted for the resolution, two - Russia and China - were against, the rest abstained during the vote, Censor.NET reports with reference to Ukrainian Pravda.

The document contains a call to Russia to "immediately cease all actions against the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and any other nuclear facility in and on Ukraine." Source: https://censor.net/en/n3367403