Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

^ I think you may be looking at things the wrong way, Sky. If you have a " player " on your team with recent combat experience and understands the Russian Military as they do, they would be a huge asset and one other NATO members could learn from. It's not a competition.

You also forget that the U.S military has it's own recent combat experience although it's impossible to argue with the skill and determination that the Ukrainian forces have shown.

You misunderstand me. I agree with you there. But nations are not altruistic, they are egoistic. So are governments. The actors I mentioned may not like to loose own influence. Right because the Ukraine militarily would be a heavyweight. You and me say thats an asset, and yes, the yhave proven themselves. But you and me are no government polticians of nations.

German foreign minister Baerbock for example already has already commented in a suspiciously muted manner. Germany is the obvious suspect against Ukraine membership. France also is. Turkey.



You see, Finland and Sweden also would be net contributors to the alliance strength. But not to such a "threatening" ammount as war-experienced Ukraine would be.

And then ther eis article 5. Some NATO members do nto want to get pulled into the war by that.

Finally, NATO statutes are clear. candidate can only be who has no unsolved border issues with any of his neighbours.


It will not happen like Selensky wants it. I can understand him, but it will not happen. Not before an end of at least this current round of the war has come. Europeans will not sign an agreement that could bring them straight into a nuclear war, in their perception.

[mapuc]

Markus

[August]

Russians are trying to withdraw from Lyman but the Ukrainians have cut them off forcing them to run a gauntlet. Might be their "Highway of Death".

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by August

Russians are trying to withdraw from Lyman but the Ukrainians have cut them off forcing them to run a gauntlet. Might be their "Highway of Death".

[Jimbuna]

Russia has withdrawn its troops from the strategic Ukrainian town of Lyman, in a move seen as a significant setback for its campaign in the east.

The retreat came amid fears thousands of soldiers would be encircled in the town, Russia's defence ministry said.

Recapturing Lyman is of strategic significance for Ukraine.

The town had been used as a logistics hub by Russia, and could give Ukrainian troops access to more territory in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

Video footage shared online showed Ukrainian soldiers waving their national flag on the outskirts of the town.

Although the blue and yellow colours were flying in Lyman again, fighting was "still going on" there, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in his evening video address.

However, he gave no further details.

The battlefield setback prompted the Chechen leader and hardline Moscow ally, Ramzan Kadyrov, to comment that Russia should consider using low-yield nuclear weapons in the face of such defeats.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63102220

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Almost all Russian troops deployed in Lyman have been successfully redeployed to either body bags or Ukrainian captivity - Ministry of Defense

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine commented on the situation in the city of Lyman, Donetsk region.

According to Censor.NЕТ, it was reported on the official Twitter of the Ministry of Defense.

The message noted: "Thanks to Russia's 'Ministry of Defense' for their successful cooperation in organizing the Izium 2.0 exercise. Almost all of the Russian troops stationed in Lyman were successfully redeployed either to body bags or Ukrainian captivity. We have one question for you: do you want a repeat?" Source: https://censor.net/en/n3370910

[Jimbuna]

Skeptical states should reconsider their position on Ukraine’s membership in NATO - Kuleba

Given the radical change in the situation, Ukraine is counting on a positive change in the position of NATO members, previously skeptical about our country’s accession to the Alliance, because it is in Ukraine that the future of the Euro-Atlantic space is now decided.

This was stated by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, Dmytro Kuleba in the air on the air of the national telethon, reports Censor.NЕТ.

"The future of the Euro-Atlantic space is decided in Ukraine. Euro-Atlantic security is impossible without the victory of Ukraine," the Minister said.

The minister is convinced that Ukraine's accession to NATO changes the logic and dynamics of the process of Euro-Atlantic integration of our state.

"The situation has fundamentally changed. And even states that are still skeptical about Ukraine's membership in NATO should reconsider their position under these new circumstances," he stressed.

Dmytro Kuleba recalled that when Ukraine had previously applied for membership in the European Union, the reaction of some capitals, traditionally skeptical on this issue, was also extremely restrained.

"But in the end, that application changed the dynamics and logic of the political process, and we got candidate status for EU membership. The current application also changes the logic and dynamics of the process," he said.

The minister noted that Ukraine today is a state that, despite the war, continues to implement reforms, and a state that sacrifices its best sons and daughters in defense of democracy.

He noted that now the ball is in NATO's court, and if the Alliance decides to define a list of steps that Ukraine needs to complete in order to successfully complete the integration process, our country is ready to implement them. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3370907

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Didn't Putin use his best soldiers/specialist to take Kyiv in the beginning of the war and wasn't it not the entire Ukraine who was Putins goal from start ?

I can have remembered wrong-'cause a friends friend have told me this was never Putins goal.

On by the way-Do not fear nuke-They will not be used-How I know ?
I know how old I get- I have around 30 years left to live.
Well Putin could still throw one or two tactical nukes in Ukraine-But Nato will not retaliate.

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Didn't Putin use his best soldiers/specialist to take Kyiv in the beginning of the war and wasn't it not the entire Ukraine who was Putins goal from start ?

I can have remembered wrong-'cause a friends friend have told me this was never Putins goal.

On by the way-Do not fear nuke-They will not be used-How I know ?
I know how old I get- I have around 30 years left to live.
Well Putin could still throw one or two tactical nukes in Ukraine-But Nato will not retaliate.

Markus

In the beginning, it was the regular army that failed in taking Kiev. Kiev was the goal to change the government to install a Russian friendly puppet government that was the main objective if that plan worked they did not need to take the whole of Ukraine as the plan is now. Tactical nuclear weapons are intended more as an ultimate emergency in a defensive scenario, when all is lost. Unlike the all-destructive strategic nuclear missile weapons, tactical nuclear weapons are intended for military targets. You are not trying to destroy a country, but to turn the military operation, but regardless of the colossal geopolitical consequences, the means is difficult to deploy militarily effectively, especially offensively. The attacking party must be careful not to hit its own forces, either directly or indirectly through fallout. Moreover, the affected area must be considered lost because of the radioactive radiation. It is intended more as an ultimate contingency in a defensive scenario, when all is lost.

Putin blustered about 'increased nuclear state readiness' all threats of nuclear weapons have been purely verbal. Russia has never really put its nuclear units on high alert. U.S. intelligence agencies used satellite imagery and other means to disprove that claim made by Putin in late February. With the deployment of nuclear weapons, the Kremlin will be completely isolated internationally and will also lose the tacit support of major allies such as India and China. Furthermore, the US and EU warned of "catastrophic consequences" for Russia if Putin pushes the button.

Russia could signal its nuclear strike capability. For example, by an air burst; a launched missile detonated very high up. Both the explosion and the fallout will be relatively limited, hoping to bring Zelensky to his knees.

[Dargo]

Lyman voted for liberation from Russian occupation. Referendum was held under control of independent observers: HIMARS, howitzers, tanks and others. https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/statu...76675993571328

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You misunderstand me. I agree with you there. But nations are not altruistic, they are egoistic. So are governments. The actors I mentioned may not like to loose own influence. Right because the Ukraine militarily would be a heavyweight. You and me say thats an asset, and yes, the yhave proven themselves. But you and me are no government polticians of nations.

German foreign minister Baerbock for example already has already commented in a suspiciously muted manner. Germany is the obvious suspect against Ukraine membership. France also is. Turkey.



You see, Finland and Sweden also would be net contributors to the alliance strength. But not to such a "threatening" ammount as war-experienced Ukraine would be.

And then ther eis article 5. Some NATO members do nto want to get pulled into the war by that.

Finally, NATO statutes are clear. candidate can only be who has no unsolved border issues with any of his neighbours.


It will not happen like Selensky wants it. I can understand him, but it will not happen. Not before an end of at least this current round of the war has come. Europeans will not sign an agreement that could bring them straight into a nuclear war, in their perception.

Ok. I get what you are saying and I agree. Thanks for the clarification.


To be clear, both Sweden and Finland bring a lot to the party. And, I'm not just talking the " beer and chips. "

[mapuc]

Stop comparing me to Hitler. He kept things he annexed for several years. I can barely manage several hours.

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...07188091744256

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by mapuc

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...07188091744256

Markus

Stop comparing me to Hitler. He kept things he annexed for several years. I can barely manage several hours.


That was funny.