US Politics Thread 2021-24

[August]

I'm reminded of Hillary claiming not to know that the C stamped on those classified papers she mishandled meant Confidential. She was given a pass because she is a Democrat though.


In case anyone wants to mess with the government then print out one of these and staple it to your last years vacation itinerary or something and maybe the Feds will raid you too. But only if you are a Republican...



https://www.dami.army.pentagon.mil/s...ER%20SHEET.pdf

[Jeff-Groves]

Well.
It does say 'Special Intelligence' so one has to wonder?
Does that mean We have to be all PC?


I say mail out a bunch of stuff with this attached!

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

I'm reminded of Hillary claiming not to know that the C stamped on those classified papers she mishandled meant Confidential. She was given a pass because she is a Democrat though.

There were no papers involved... they were emails...

And I feel I must remind you again that Trump gave her a pass as well. Just like the Republican held congress did.

[August]

Originally Posted by Dowly

There were no papers involved... they were emails...

And I feel I must remind you again that Trump gave her a pass as well. Just like the Republican held congress did.

Yep, because intent is very difficult to prove, which was the reason for her apparent obtuseness and I bet a lack of provable intent will be what sinks this latest shot at getting Trump.

[Jeff-Groves]

Just have to say, Dowly. I'm impressed with your posts!

[mapuc]

The question for me is- His intention what were they ?

Did he remove these paper on purpose ?
If not why did he take them-By mistake ?

I understand that they have found classified paper at his resident in Mar a Lago It's up to a Jury and a Judge to figurer out if his intention behind this.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Yeah. And if would go that far, AND, He's judged innocent?

there would be an investigation of Jury Tampering.

[Dowly]

So, Trump has finally figured out his defense: "I declassified them".

There's just one fairly large problem with that. The recipe lists documents with various levels of classifications. That wouldn't be the case if they were declassified.

While the POTUS does have the power to declassify nearly everything, he can't simply say something is declassified and it is so. There's a process to it. The request for declassification needs to be recorded, the change of classification needs to be recorded and the document itself needs to be changed to reflect its new classification. If it says "Classified" on the document then that is what that document is classified as.

And naturally, if there are no records then Trump is going to have a hard time trying to prove his defense.

[August]

Sorry.

The president's defense is rooted in the legal principal that the president and vice president are the ultimate declassifying authority of the U.S. government and through executive orders most recently issued in 2003 by George W. Bush and Barack Obama in 2009 that specifically exempt the president and vice president from having to follow the stringent declassification procedures every other federal agency and official must follow.

Trump has maintained for weeks that any documents still containing classified markings in his possession after he left office were previously declassified. On Friday night, the statement issued to Just the News explained exactly how that declassification occurred in his mind.

The very fact that these documents were present at Mar-a-Lago means they couldn’t have been classified," the former president's office stated. "As we can all relate to, everyone ends up having to bring home their work from time to time. American presidents are no different. President Trump, in order to prepare for work the next day, often took documents including classified documents from the Oval Office to the residence.

"He had a standing order that documents removed from the Oval Office and taken into the residence were deemed to be declassified," the statement added. "The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States. The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd."

Two former senior aides who worked for Trump in the latter half of his term said they were aware that Trump routinely took documents to the residence rather than return them to the Staff Secretary or the intelligence official who provided them. Asked whether there was a standing order, one former official "I don't know anyone or anything that disputes that."

Ordinarily, documents declassified by a president are later retrieved and marked declassified, usually by crossing a line through the prior classification markings. But former top aides to prior presidents acknowledged the president's power to declassify was absolute and at times resulted in instant declassification decisions.

One prior administration official related an instance where his boss, while talking to a foreign leader, gave top-secret information to the leader, declassifying simply by sharing what he had seen in a top-secret marked document. Another official related an instance he witnessed in which a president, during a meeting, received a top secret document and one official got up to leave because his clearance was only at the secret level.
"The president instantly approved that staffer to stay and consume the top-secret intelligence because it benefited the president's work at that moment," the person told Just the News.

The president's detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president's arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

Obama's executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

"Information originated by the incumbent President or the incumbent Vice President; the incumbent President’s White House Staff or the incumbent Vice President’s Staff; committees, commissions, or boards appointed by the incumbent President; or other entities within the Executive Office of the President that solely advise and assist the incumbent President is exempted from the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section," the Obama order stated.

Officials said it is likely the FBI will seek to find any officials or witnesses who knew or can confirm there was a "standing order" as described by the Trump statement. But in the end, officials said the president's declassification powers were sweeping and likely would be viewed as such by the courts.

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...fied-documents

[Otto Harkaman]

Originally Posted by Dowly

So, Trump has finally figured out his defense: "I declassified them".

There's just one fairly large problem with that. The recipe lists documents with various levels of classifications. That wouldn't be the case if they were declassified.

While the POTUS does have the power to declassify nearly everything, he can't simply say something is declassified and it is so. There's a process to it. The request for declassification needs to be recorded, the change of classification needs to be recorded and the document itself needs to be changed to reflect its new classification. If it says "Classified" on the document then that is what that document is classified as.

And naturally, if there are no records then Trump is going to have a hard time trying to prove his defense.

I hope you have harsh words for Putin on another thread? What is your obsession with Trump? A very horrible man indeed, I guess you were highly offended by his ribald talk of wanton Hollywood actresses?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The question for me is- His intention what were they ?

Did he remove these paper on purpose ?
If not why did he take them-By mistake ?

I understand that they have found classified paper at his resident in Mar a Lago It's up to a Jury and a Judge to figurer out if his intention behind this.

Markus

Two answers.

First, he is extremely ego-focussed, and thinks all things in the world belong to him. Narcissists think the whole world revolves around them, and cannot be without them. The papers he took, in his view belong to him, too. How could it be different? He is the Trump, the shining centre of the universe that gives life and warmth and meaning to all and evertyhing!

Second, he knows that some secrets are perfect to make money of them when selling them to the right side. The WP says some of the papers included info on positioning of nuclear weapons, something of that callibre. That has a very nice price tag attached, I bet. And he need smoney, he is not only locked in many different law cases, but is in money needs, too.

I think if they were not after Trump but after just any average Joe, that person already would be locked behind bars by now, and would wear orange for the next many years.

By the legal situation as the media describe it, its not relevant what the papers' content is, relevant only is their official secrecy rating and the legal rules ruling how material of what secrecy category is to be treated. And that makes Trump as guilty as one can be. I think the motive of treason and selling secrets is absolutely realistic, too.

As I see it so far, he should be toast. If Biden "pardons" him (lets him escape without persecuting him) for fears of not wanting to cause unrest, he should be force-delivered into a retirement home and locked into a room without telephone.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

I hope you have harsh words for Putin on another thread? What is your obsession with Trump? A very horrible man indeed, I guess you were highly offended by his ribald talk of wanton Hollywood actresses?

Question is how did Trump declassify the evidence that the FBI planted? Asking for a friend.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Two answers.

First, he is extremely ego-focussed, and thinks all things in the world belong to him. Narcissists think the whole world revolves around them, and cannot be without them.

Second, he knows that some secrets are perfect to make money of them when selling them to the right side. The WP says some of the papers included info on positioning of nuclear weapons, something of that callibre. That has a very nice price tag attached, I bet.


I think if they were not after Trump but after just any average Joe, that person already would be locked behind bars by now, and would wear orange for the next many years.



By the legal situation as the media describe it, its not relevant what the papers' content is, relevant only is their official secrecy rating and the legal rules ruling how material of what secrecy category is to be treated. And that makes Trump as guilty as one can be. I think the motive of treason and selling secrets is absolutely realistic, too.



As I see it so far, he should be toast. If Biden "pardons" him (lets him escape without persecuting him) for fears of not wanting to cause unrest, he should be force-delivered into a retirement home and locked into a room without telephone.

Thank you for your answer.

I can only say as I have said before it's up to the Jury and the Judge to figure out if he removed these paper on purpose or not.

If the Judge demands that a psychological profile has to be made on Trump-Then we maybe will learn how his psycho function.

Markus

[mapuc]

I found this comment interesting.

It is quite common for former presidents of the United States to disagree with the administration about what they are allowed to take with them. However, it is usually resolved amicably between some lawyers. Why this was so important that the process was interrupted and the material retrieved in this way, only time will tell

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Question is how did Trump declassify the evidence that the FBI planted? Asking for a friend.

Telepathy. He thought "It should be so", and so it came to be.