Where is a good tutorial on manual targeting?

[I'm goin' down]

I need to read a good tutorial on manual targeting for ATO. I have manaul targeting down of SH4 PTO, but I cannot figure out the German side. If someone can point the way, it would be apprecaited. It looks like a heck of a good mod, on the level of TMO, but right now it is kicking my butt because I cannot hit the broadside of a barn, yet alone a target.

Lurker, if you are out there, help is needed.

[joegrundman]

search in the sh3 forums, since it works the same as sh3.

but i assume that since you are experienced you don't have problems with gathering data, so the problem is inputting data into the TDC and using it to hit things? or is it using the whiz wheels that ship with the karamozovnew interface?

please clarify what exactly is the problem

[I'm goin' down]

I think it is "using the whiz wheels that ship with the karamozovnew interface?" I am not sure what that is, so that must be part of the problem
How do I get range? How do I input Aob? I am set for imperial measurement, so do use the 3 minute rule for speed, and if so, how do I input it?

[joegrundman]

how have you been playing sh4 all these years?

you get range the usual way - you use the stadimeter (checking the checkbox in the recog manual) - or map contact updates if you want to play 'lite'

but on the whole you are talking about how to use the tdc, not the whiz wheels.

the tdc in the u-boat simulator is basically 4 dials: speed, range, aob, bearing.

there is a switch/button that puts the tdc on or off. find it.

you have to switch this so that when you try and click on the pointer in eg the range, it moves.

set the range to your desired range

do the same with aob

do the same with speed.

- you can forget about bearing. bearing will be taken auto from your scope, but good idea to have the scope pointing at the target at the time

flick the switch again. the tdc is now on auto which means that if you move the scope, it will auto update the aob.

or to put it another way, if you have the bearing at 70 and an aob of port 20 and you plug this in and turn on the tdc, when your scope tracks the target as it advances, the new aob will be constantly updated, so when your scope is now at 000, the aob dial will show port 90. try it and see on an imaginary target.

so that's all done for you, once you have it set correctly you can just wait until the target is in the firing position, no need to mess any more with the tdc, just track with scope and fire.

spreads are also very easy since you just point the scope at the bit of target you want to hit.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

how have you been playing sh4 all these years?

you get range the usual way - you use the stadimeter (checking the checkbox in the recog manual) - or map contact updates if you want to play 'lite'

but on the whole you are talking about how to use the tdc, not the whiz wheels.

the tdc in the u-boat simulator is basically 4 dials: speed, range, aob, bearing.

there is a switch/button that puts the tdc on or off. find it.

you have to switch this so that when you try and click on the pointer in eg the range, it moves.

set the range to your desired range

do the same with aob

do the same with speed.

- you can forget about bearing. bearing will be taken auto from your scope, but good idea to have the scope pointing at the target at the time

flick the switch again. the tdc is now on auto which means that if you move the scope, it will auto update the aob.

or to put it another way, if you have the bearing at 70 and an aob of port 20 and you plug this in and turn on the tdc, when your scope tracks the target as it advances, the new aob will be constantly updated, so when your scope is now at 000, the aob dial will show port 90. try it and see on an imaginary target.

so that's all done for you, once you have it set correctly you can just wait until the target is in the firing position, no need to mess any more with the tdc, just track with scope and fire.

spreads are also very easy since you just point the scope at the bit of target you want to hit.

The issue is simply how to do the manual targeting tasks in a UBoat. I can do them in an American Sub in SH4 PTO and Trenchboats. I will give it another shot and post if I continue to be stuck.

[I'm goin' down]

I cannot figure out how to enter speed. I move the speed dial. Speed is not entered. I push the button to activate and deactivate manual entry of speed, etc. and speed is not entered.

I play with map contacts on. If that is the easy way, I will continue until I figure this stuff out.

[joegrundman]

some would say there is nothing wrong with playing map contacts on. I wouldn't go that far, but i do agree that it's fine to have them on while 'training up'

Are you using karamozovnew's new interface for u-boats or not?

If not, have you identified the location of the TDC on the attack map page? Not the notepad feature on the periscope page. The notepad is flawed and best left alone. Try to use only the TDC on the attack map page.

the periscope notepad is a flawed copy of the sh3 system, and unfortunately is broken. For people coming from sh3 this is annoying but can be worked around, but for you it's probably just mystifying. basically, don't use it. only use the tdc on the attack map page.

this short thread goes into the details and has been found useful by some:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...iscope+notepad

Probably better to just use the new interface by karamozovnew and learn from scratch

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

some would say there is nothing wrong with playing map contacts on. I wouldn't go that far, but i do agree that it's fine to have them on while 'training up'

Are you using karamozovnew's new interface for u-boats or not?

If not, have you identified the location of the TDC on the attack map page? Not the notepad feature on the periscope page. The notepad is flawed and best left alone. Try to use only the TDC on the attack map page.

the periscope notepad is a flawed copy of the sh3 system, and unfortunately is broken. For people coming from sh3 this is annoying but can be worked around, but for you it's probably just mystifying. basically, don't use it. only use the tdc on the attack map page.

this short thread goes into the details and has been found useful by some:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...iscope+notepad

Probably better to just use the new interface by karamozovnew and learn from scratch

When I enter speed on the Attack Map manually it does not show up on the notepad. Does this matter?

I have no idea how the notepad is used, and if it is broken I assume I ignore it.

What is and where is the interface by karamozovnew?

I will check out the link you posted.

Is attacking with mod confined to attacks at a 90 degree angle because of the difficulty with the notepad? How did you figure that out?

[joegrundman]

you need to use the notepad to get range using stadimeter - but because the notepad is broken, don't click the 'send' button. instead go to the attack map page and enter the range manually

things set using the dials have no bearing on the notepad, but every time you click send on the notepad it updates the dials - which is a problem since it is rare that all info on the notepad is correct.

for karamozovnew's interface, look in the sh4 ato mods for new interface by karamazovnew

the style of attack for u-boats, because of the auto update system linking periscope bearing and aob, means that a 90 degree attack is entirely optional.

for other reasons it is good to be 90 degrees to target track but once you and the tdc are set up right, you are always solved for every ship in a convoy at all times. This is one of the features that SH3 players lamented when playing sh4

actually this conversation has just given me an idea on how to fully automate the AOB finder. maybe time to get my modding gloves on again

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

you need to use the notepad to get range using stadimeter - but because the notepad is broken, don't click the 'send' button. instead go to the attack map page and enter the range manually

things set using the dials have no bearing on the notepad, but every time you click send on the notepad it updates the dials - which is a problem since it is rare that all info on the notepad is correct.

for karamozovnew's interface, look in the sh4 ato mods for new interface by karamazovnew

the style of attack for u-boats, because of the auto update system linking periscope bearing and aob, means that a 90 degree attack is entirely optional.

for other reasons it is good to be 90 degrees to target track but once you and the tdc are set up right, you are always solved for every ship in a convoy at all times. This is one of the features that SH3 players lamented when playing sh4

actually this conversation has just given me an idea on how to fully automate the AOB finder. maybe time to get my modding gloves on again

I am getting closer to getting the basics. Here is what I did.

1. Turned on manual targeting
2. Determined speed under the three minute rule and input speed;
3. Plotted the target's course with compass tool;
4. Plotted 90 degree AoB;
5. Set Aob at 90 degrees manually and moved into firing range for a broadside shot;
6. Set range manually by turning the range dial accordingly;
7. Turned off manual targeting;
8. I assumed the Aob would adjust automatically when I rotated the scope once I turned off manual targeting, so next I aimed the scope at 15 degrees;
9. When the target crossed 15 degrees -- Fired 3 torps. All missed. I think they were duds--at least two for sure. But one was on track to the target when it exploded. I did not follow the other two. If I set the range to target too short, will the torpedoes detonate when they reach the shorter range?

I have no idea how to enter range in the notepad. I am not sure you can enter it on the notepad. If you cannot, how to figure range?

Anyway, the list above is what I am doing. From here you might be able to guide me. If map contacts are disabled, how do you calculate range? So far, I am not impressed by this mod, but it is probably because I have no idea how manual targeting is supposed to work, plus from what I have read, the notepad is broken. I have some more reading to do, but I would like to get a handle on what I should be doing. It seems to be the first item of business.

[I'm goin' down]

I need some quidance re my last post. It is above this one. I am missing something, but I am not sure what it is.

[joegrundman]

i will spell out the steps of the kind of approach and attack you are attempting

1. plot target course, calculate speed: e.g. target course 100, speed 9kts, showing it's starboard bow to you

2. maneuver into attack position

3. Adopt an attack course that is 90 to target track. target is 100, showing starboard to you, so your attack course is 010. Now when the target passes in front of you it will show AOB of starboard 90. Say "yes" if you understand this point.

4. Set periscope to bearing 000

5. turn tdc to manual

6. set AOB to starboard 90

7. set speed to 9

8. set range to what you estimate it to be when you fire (but as it's a straight ahead shot, range accuracy is not important)

9. set tdc to auto

10. Now point scope at the target. the aob on the dial should be (090 minus degrees of bearing) to target. if the bearing to target is, say 300 (-60), the aob dial on the tdc should show starboard 30 (90-60). Say "yes" if you check that this is so, and understand why. NB you don't even have to point at the target to test this, just set the scope to any deflection and the aob dial should show an equivalent deflection.

11. Now on the scope screen there is a 3 digit number somewhere that changes as your scope bearing changes. it should show 000 round about when the scope is showing bearing 350. this is the torpedo gyro angle indicator

12. track the target with the scope. When the gyro angle indicator shows 000, click fire for a perfect straight shot.

---
to be sure of whether or not you are hitting regardless of duds, set depth to shallow, torps to impact only, and put event camera on

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

i will spell out the steps of the kind of approach and attack you are attempting

1. plot target course, calculate speed: e.g. target course 100, speed 9kts, showing it's starboard bow to you

2. maneuver into attack position

3. Adopt an attack course that is 90 to target track. target is 100, showing starboard to you, so your attack course is 010. Now when the target passes in front of you it will show AOB of starboard 90. Say "yes" if you understand this point.

4. Set periscope to bearing 000

5. turn tdc to manual

6. set AOB to starboard 90

7. set speed to 9

8. set range to what you estimate it to be when you fire (but as it's a straight ahead shot, range accuracy is not important)

9. set tdc to auto

10. Now point scope at the target. the aob on the dial should be (090 minus degrees of bearing) to target. if the bearing to target is, say 300 (-60), the aob dial on the tdc should show starboard 30 (90-60). Say "yes" if you check that this is so, and understand why. NB you don't even have to point at the target to test this, just set the scope to any deflection and the aob dial should show an equivalent deflection.

11. Now on the scope screen there is a 3 digit number somewhere that changes as your scope bearing changes. it should show 000 round about when the scope is showing bearing 350. this is the torpedo gyro angle indicator

12. track the target with the scope. When the gyro angle indicator shows 000, click fire for a perfect straight shot.

---
to be sure of whether or not you are hitting regardless of duds, set depth to shallow, torps to impact only, and put event camera on

Now we are getting somewhere. This seems simple enough. Here are my questions and a response to no. 3 above.

3. Response: Yes.
5. Is manual setting when you hit the button and TDC screen and it turns red (the light comes on!). Or are you in manual when the light is not lit?
9. Same question as no. 5. When is the tdc in auto postion. I am assuming the button the Attack Map sets the TDC in manual or auto position.
10. Response: Yes. What to "NB" mean?

All in all, a good explanation. Thanks.

Once I get this down, if I want to attack at an angle other than a 90 degree AoB, I will post a question on how to do it if it doesn't dawn on me. Basically, here are my concerns in such a scenario.

Are there range issues I must consider in a manual attack that is not 90 degrees. There is a range dial on the Attack Map. Is it as simple as using the dial, or is there a stadimeter measurement involved, and if so, where is that tool and how does one operate it?

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Now we are getting somewhere. This seems simple enough. Here are my questions and a response to no. 3 above.

3. Response: Yes.
5. Is manual setting when you hit the button and TDC screen and it turns red (the light comes on!). Or are you in manual when the light is not lit?
9. Same question as no. 5. When is the tdc in auto postion. I am assuming the button the Attack Map sets the TDC in manual or auto position.
10. Response: Yes. What to "NB" mean?

All in all, a good explanation. Thanks.

Once I get this down, if I want to attack at an angle other than a 90 degree AoB, I will post a question on how to do it if it doesn't dawn on me. Basically, here are my concerns in such a scenario.

Are there range issues I must consider in a manual attack that is not 90 degrees. There is a range dial on the Attack Map. Is it as simple as using the dial, or is there a stadimeter measurement involved, and if so, where is that tool and how does one operate it?

for manual/auto, tbh i forget which colour is which. But it's manual when you are able to move the arms on the dials of the tdc and it's on auto when you can't. but when it's on auto, the aob and bearing are linked and aob will update as you track the target.

NB means Nota Bene = Latin for Note Well, or , important point or something like that.

Yes, in the stage where you set your course to 90 degree of target track and then point periscope to 000 and then enter aob of 90

in fact at this point, if say you want to shoot at target track of 125, then you zero the scope again and just key in whatever aob you expect the target to show when it passes straight ahead of you. in this case 125.

and in fact you don't need to be on the attack course first. if you know what you plan to do, you can set it all up long before you enter your attack course.

Range: further from straight ahead, the more important range becomes. this is tricky in sh4 ubm because the notepad is broken as described above.

if you can measure range by other means, eg. by calculating through knowledge of the plot, then you can enter it directly in the tdc.

it was a very bad mistake the devs put in here, and shame they decided ubm would obviously never merit a patch.

this is why it may be better to look in the long run at the karamazovnew interface

[I'm goin' down]

the interface is omegu_v300_pkg and omegu_300_Patch7_pkg? If it is, what does it do and how do I use it? I have activated them via JGSME. If they are not the interface, I could not find it.