[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Bubblehead1980]

After six patrols, a transfer to Pearl Harbor in December 1942 and having to edit files to manually refit the USS Seal SS-183 (Salmon class), I needed a break, so decided would come back to this career and try to make it from start of war to end in Salmon. Plus, wanted to test out some things for the forthcoming patch in the campaign and Seal was several patrols away from Fall 1943.

I started a career with a Balao USS Skate SS-305 out of Pearl Harbor and advanced start date until 26 September, so could proceed to Wake Island for first ever official lifeguard mission by US submarines (as Skate actually did ) on 5/6 October 1943. For the patch, I added the US TF, departs PH at historical date and time , quite the sight.


Anyways, while en route , had an incident that shows why in the updated TMO, trim dives and sound sweeps are important. I came close and would have been upset losing this boat as I spent a lot of time editing the crew etc. Link below for full story.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=250720

[4H_Ccrashh]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Ouch, they did a real number on you...40 percen hull damage and all the equipment wrecked. You were definitely extremely close to hull collapse in a S boat at 320 feet with that kind of hull damage. A little deeper or one close charge that increased hull damage even a little more. Obvious were dealing with first team escorts, for them to put charges close enough to dot that kind hull damage, does not happen often in the update. The way the way damage model was reworked, it damaged and destroy key equipment until you sink or surface, sometimes can't surface no matter how hard you try.


Yes, trim pump damage is modeled, it always has been but it was so well protected it was rare for it to take damage, let alone be damaged enough to malfunction. First time I discovered this was several years ago, long before I was modding, and was in a S boat in 1942 off Kiska Island in the Aleutians. Boat took a close charge and was wondering why could not keep it level but not flooding, looked to see trim pump damage was at 90 percent. When your trim pump is damaged beyond a certain point or destroyed, boat becomes difficult to control. If you have flooding anywhere in boat, control becomes s even more difficult and need noisy speed to compensate.

Hydraulic pump goes, becomes very difficult to operate boat as well, both to steer and control dive planes. I've lost dive planes before, surfaced and they were gone , blown away lol diving is a bit different then.

Glad you made it, would definitely repair at Mangarin Bay then head for home with that kind of hull damage. Let me know how it turns out.




I have never encountered the black shadow creatures you speak of. Does this happen every time ?

The shadow crew used to happen a long time ago. If it happens again I'll take a screen shot.

As for the return trip... Never made it.

Shortly after getting to the surface and making repairs an enemy seaplane showed up right on top of us. Dive was very sluggish and we got nailed with bombs.

Started a new campaign, Still out of Cavite and per chance I got the S-37 again!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by 4H_Ccrashh

The shadow crew used to happen a long time ago. If it happens again I'll take a screen shot.

As for the return trip... Never made it.

Shortly after getting to the surface and making repairs an enemy seaplane showed up right on top of us. Dive was very sluggish and we got nailed with bombs.

Started a new campaign, Still out of Cavite and per chance I got the S-37 again!

Okay thanks.

Oh man, survived all of that, then a plane gets you. Running on the surface in day time when do not have SD radar is definitely a risk . That is TMO for ya lol.

Same boat? Nice. Are you familiar with my "Select Your Sub" mod? Allows you to choose your submarine before starting a campaign, quite easy. IF interested, below is the link for future use.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=5190

Let me know how new campaign works out.

[Kal_Maximus_U669]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Okay thanks.

Oh man, survived all of that, then a plane gets you. Running on the surface in day time when do not have SD radar is definitely a risk . That is TMO for ya lol.

Same boat? Nice. Are you familiar with my "Select Your Sub" mod? Allows you to choose your submarine before starting a campaign, quite easy. IF interested, below is the link for future use.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=5190

Let me know how new campaign works out.

hey Bubblehead1980
I saw all the explanations that you provided it is fantastic it is exactly how it happened December 1941 It is to say several times seen by the Kawanishi H6k & Jake planes the day before then arriving in the archipelagos the invasion begins but I found their attitude strange yes it is indeed an invasion because 3 of the ships were transport of troops & tank protected by a heavier building we see it in the telescope on the screen but my ignorance of this war of the Pacific ... . you now understand why i found it strange now i saved at the right time i am going to redo it with a different approach at the time of the attack it is really great the dimension that you bring thanks to this unavailable radar. Now I can not wait to fire to test the torpedoes because I took a load of mark 10 & mark 14 I said to myself we are going to see the behavior here I put my card to you with what confirms your say



first attempt to destroy them my sent by the bottom .. even with Arnold Schwarzenegger on board

[Arlo]

Critical depth comparison: S-boat vs. Tench in this mod:

The implosion is sudden and complete. S-Boat at 350', Tench at 900'.

(It would be nice if the audio clearing the bridge wouldn't happen when submerged.)

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Critical depth comparison: S-boat vs. Tench in this mod:

The implosion is sudden and complete. S-Boat at 350', Tench at 900'.

(It would be nice if the audio clearing the bridge wouldn't happen when submerged.)

Thanks for the videos. I did enjoy them


Just a heads up, if share spoilers such as crush depths etc, please include a "SPOILER ALERT" in the topic and at head of the post, and do not give too much away early in the post, so do not see information may not want to know.

I revised the crush depths of the boats and did not share them for a reason in the README, to keep a certain element fo the unknown present in the mod, the element of not knowing just how deep boat can go, and being forced to operate in a certain manner on patrol, unless go out of way to find out.

Actually, even as the developer of the Update for TMO, I am not sure of the exact revised crush depths in the mod as I did not test them to find ou. I did this in order to maintain that element for myself, even as a developer. Now, I do have an estimate , and tested to make sure boats would make it to a certain depth as they historically were able to, based on the class of submarine. I believe I guaranteed can get at least 100 ft below test depth without concern, if have ZERO hull damage i.e. full hull integrity. Tried to use as much historical fact as could in calculating crush depth estimates.


The dive sounds with the voices are not part of my up recent TMO Update, you must have a sound mod running which overwrites them. The dive alarms included in the update are just authentic dive alarms that sound twice for diving, three times for surface. I dislike clunky dialogue chunks cut from movies etc for this exact reasons so decided not to use them. Check JSGME for overrides of the sound files.

912 feet for Tench ? lol like I said never tested the exact depth but that one surprises me, figured it would crush around 825-850

The S Class was revised in the update. They are much more vulnerable, reflecting the obsolescent nature. They have been, since SH 4 was released like tanks, always annoyed me. As you see, they can not dive very deep either but 350 is quite a bit below the test depth so for that type of old boat, not bad.

I did decide to retain the "instant death" upon reaching crush depth in TMO as felt it was more in line with reality, then reaching crush depth and being able to recover, so once below crush depth have just a few seconds before its .

[flush deck]

Fantastic work
Need to test after my texture stuff for sure.
Let me know if you need something regarding my texture mod for your project
Thanks for this great update

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by flush deck

Fantastic work
Need to test after my texture stuff for sure.
Let me know if you need something regarding my texture mod for your project
Thanks for this great update

Thank you! I am working on a patch now and plan to look into making sure your mod is compatible with my TMO Upgrade. Looks great

[Bubblehead1980]

All the work, frustration, time etc. really was worth it, I've had a blast running this mod since its release, when I am (mostly) not testing, just enjoying it.

I just wrapped up my second war patrol in the Balao Class USS Skate SS-305 from 6 December 1943-16 January 1944 North of Truk. Saw a lot of action, really was a blast. Patrol report with screenshots at link below.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=107786

[Mav87th]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thank you, glad you are enjoying it. There is more to come.

...and enhanced the zoom level to a more reasonable level (scopes were underpowered previously, especially the observation scope). There is a clear difference between the way the attack scope and observation scopes look based on current light outside...observation had a larger head and was better for viewing.

Thanks Bubblehead - and I totally look forward to more coming from you mate - awesome stuff.

For inspiration you might want to look at this https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=133207

[MADLOU]

Just noticed that when the AA guns are manned and I order them to fire at aircraft they do nothing.

Any solutions?

Thanks.

[propbeanie]

How close are the planes? They have to be within the set AA gun range before you'll see them shoot.

[MADLOU]

Well the planes get close enough to shoot bullets and the AA gunners would not shoot and when I played the original TMO the AA gunners would shoot before the aircraft fired at the sub and for quite a while afterwards.

I know that the AA gunners now shoot at ships along with the deck gun. Perhaps that is why they no longer shoot at aircraft. If so, no problem, I usually dive when aircraft appears anyway. The AA gunners shooting at surface ships with the deck gun is big fun

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by MADLOU

Just noticed that when the AA guns are manned and I order them to fire at aircraft they do nothing.

Any solutions?

Thanks.

Make sure under the AA guns panel on the orders back you have "fire at will selected" , that works best. AA guns range is set at 4373 yards or 4000 meters. In testing I tried to raise this but they would not fire a contacts so put it back to that number. Now, I am currently testing a modification to the visual sensors of sub crews , they are kind of blind...can't see a ship I can see at ten miles..smoke, or an aircraft I can see etc, which is bit ridiculous. Their lack of vision does have a effect on their targeting of aircraft.


Also, from the README ....


11. Deck and AA guns

"An optional mod is included which converts AA guns (20 MM, 40 MM), to function against enemy vessels. Basically, when you target an enemy vessel, if the AA gun(s) are manned the will open fire on target along with the deck gun. Leave them unmanned and will not fire, if want to use deck gun only. Player will need to click on the ammo from the AA gun view to make sure they are loaded for them to fire. Early war not as much of a factor but in later war having AI firing 20 and 40 MM guns along with deck gun is great when dealing with smaller craft or in desperate situations, can lay down impressive bit of fire...."



So if you have that mod enabled, your AA guns will not fire at aircraft, they are considered deck guns by the sim and will only fire at aircraft. They are linked to the deck gun and if manned when order deck gun to open fire, they will fire at selected surface target. Unfortunately, right now it is either or, since UBI in its infinite wisdom, did not give us dual purpose AA guns, because you know, that would be too historically accurate Having said that, I believe someone told me FOTRS is working on making deck guns dual purpose.


I made the mod optional because while TMO is designed to stop such nonsense of constantly dueling it out with aircraft with AA guns on surface, in certain missions may need AA guns to be an option. One example would be lifeguard missions, special missions, especially if into shallow waters. Then again, may need the surface firepower. I provided the option to the Captain.

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Make sure under the AA guns panel on the orders back you have "fire at will selected" , that works best. AA guns range is set at 4373 yards or 4000 meters. In testing I tried to raise this but they would not fire a contacts so put it back to that number. Now, I am currently testing a modification to the visual sensors of sub crews , they are kind of blind...can't see a ship I can see at ten miles..smoke, or an aircraft I can see etc, which is bit ridiculous. Their lack of vision does have a effect on their targeting of aircraft.


Also, from the README ....


11. Deck and AA guns

"An optional mod is included which converts AA guns (20 MM, 40 MM), to function against enemy vessels. Basically, when you target an enemy vessel, if the AA gun(s) are manned the will open fire on target along with the deck gun. Leave them unmanned and will not fire, if want to use deck gun only. Player will need to click on the ammo from the AA gun view to make sure they are loaded for them to fire. Early war not as much of a factor but in later war having AI firing 20 and 40 MM guns along with deck gun is great when dealing with smaller craft or in desperate situations, can lay down impressive bit of fire...."



So if you have that mod enabled, your AA guns will not fire at aircraft, they are considered deck guns by the sim and will only fire at aircraft. They are linked to the deck gun and if manned when order deck gun to open fire, they will fire at selected surface target. Unfortunately, right now it is either or, since UBI in its infinite wisdom, did not give us dual purpose AA guns, because you know, that would be too historically accurate Having said that, I believe someone told me FOTRS is working on making deck guns dual purpose.


I made the mod optional because while TMO is designed to stop such nonsense of constantly dueling it out with aircraft with AA guns on surface, in certain missions may need AA guns to be an option. One example would be lifeguard missions, special missions, especially if into shallow waters. Then again, may need the surface firepower. I provided the option to the Captain.

Which is why for Me, I left the AA/DG mod out of the mix...owing to the fact that as it stands now... using the AA as a DG.. does NOT allow for the crew of the AA to fire at aircraft... though, I did note that I had a Pete (believe it was... noted a few odd things about it.

1. Even though I had AA set to fire at will... (not literally at people named will... ) guy didn't even bother to fire at the buzzing aircraft. Happened to be in a shallow water area... not by choice, well.. entirely by choice. To get to the assigned patrol coordinates... the area I was at, to get to that area, it was the quickest path... soooo.... I was not able to crash dive... much less... periscope depth, either. So, I had the crew man AA... just in case. Fat good it did... the guys just sat there & stared at the buzzing aircraft.

2. Noted that it seems the IJM, recruited Casper, as an airman... & 1 of His brothers... as there were NO crew visible in the pilot & gunners seats. The aircraft was a biplane & therefor had a 2 seat config... float plane, so am assuming it was off of a light or heavy cruiser, somewhere nearby perhaps... maybe even a Battleship...

At any rate... was able to zig & avoid any damages... well some minor ones & a few crew shaken up a tad... got to deeeper waters & dove... once under... set off on a 45 degree tangent to course, surfaced at dark & resumed course before making a run for it full speed before taking back to deep waters for another day, then resumed sailing on the surface to get to My assigned patrol area.



M. M.

Note:

All of that above, was while I was engaged in a Sargo class boat, mind you... the S boat, has no AA gun section... just DG only.