US Politics Thread 2021-24

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I slammed herd immunity in case of Covid 19, and Corona virusses in general.

I know herd immunity exists with other deseases. With Corona however such claims are naive, if not dubious, and I got tired of them by now. Do we have herd immunity against flu? Common cold? We do not, and probably never will. These virusses, Corona family, are too eager to mutate all the time.

The term has been used by antivaccers since long time now to denounce the reasonability of artifical vaccination.

Fact is that whereever they claimed herd immunity already existed for Covid-19 - it did not.

Therefore, many virologists have given up hopes to ever acchieve herd immunity for Covid 19 already last autumn, and some did so even earlier, if they really knew Corona virusses from their workplaces and research projects.

Theoretically, for keeping Delta harmless, you would need a vaccination rate of all population and all age groups, of 90% it was said, btw, probably even higher, 95%. Lower rates of 75-85% are only valid for earlier strains that were less infectous.

Its a dead horse, but they keep on beating it like a jungle drum. Pure desperation.


Of course it does not help that vaccinated and recovered alike loose immunity again after some months. Another detial Covid 19 has in common with the seaosnal flu and the common cold. Thats why they give seasonal flu shots, every year. Their efficiency vary from year to year and with age group, from 20, 25% to 40, 45%, in some years slightly higher.

So think about what you just said. If this coronavirus mutates as quickly as every other coronavirus that causes a common cold, then why are we bothering to chase after it? We're *already* seeing that the vaccines aren't fully effective in the new strains, less than 6 months after the major rollout of those vaccines because of symptomatic breakthrough cases in the vaccinated. So either they will *never* effectively achieve herd immunity, or everyone will be forced into annual boosters that will be best-guess as to which strains will be prevalent - similar to how they pick flu vaccine strains each season. In which case, it'll likely be a similar level of efficacy - 40% on average.

So - if that is the case, then the *only* way out without getting a shot every 6 months is to do what those of us who understand this stuff were saying last year: bite the bullet, ramp up medical readiness, protect the most vulnerable, and let everyone else get infected and then recover. We know that natural infection and subsequent recovery confers more effective immunity because you are exposed to all of the viral proteins, unlike with the vaccines. We know that there is evidence that people who have been infected with other betacoronaviruses and subsequently got COVID had a stronger immune response.

Lastly, if covid is as mutable as other coronaviruses, then the pathogenicity will very likely decrease similarly to previous deadly pandemic coronaviruses - which means it'll be an endemic common cold virus by next year, with potential for increased pathogenicity every couple of decades.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Back to US Politics

So USA does not exist anymore !?

What type of country has it turned into instead ?

Markus

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

Hey, I agree with you on this, unfortunately that smoke was let out of the box in, oh 1985 or so, during the Reagan years and I don't see how it can ever be put back in.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

Unfortunately, it looks like our military big wigs are more likely to join the media in placing their vacant heads up their own arses before the media ever remove their own. But what would I know, I'm unsophisticated unlike all those who attended Obama's Birthday Party.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

So think about what you just said. If this coronavirus mutates as quickly as every other coronavirus that causes a common cold, then why are we bothering to chase after it? We're *already* seeing that the vaccines aren't fully effective in the new strains, less than 6 months after the major rollout of those vaccines because of symptomatic breakthrough cases in the vaccinated. So either they will *never* effectively achieve herd immunity, or everyone will be forced into annual boosters that will be best-guess as to which strains will be prevalent - similar to how they pick flu vaccine strains each season. In which case, it'll likely be a similar level of efficacy - 40% on average.

So - if that is the case, then the *only* way out without getting a shot every 6 months is to do what those of us who understand this stuff were saying last year: bite the bullet, ramp up medical readiness, protect the most vulnerable, and let everyone else get infected and then recover. We know that natural infection and subsequent recovery confers more effective immunity because you are exposed to all of the viral proteins, unlike with the vaccines. We know that there is evidence that people who have been infected with other betacoronaviruses and subsequently got COVID had a stronger immune response.

Lastly, if covid is as mutable as other coronaviruses, then the pathogenicity will very likely decrease similarly to previous deadly pandemic coronaviruses - which means it'll be an endemic common cold virus by next year, with potential for increased pathogenicity every couple of decades.

If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.

[Skybird]

Another one who gained enlightenment too late.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/funeral-ma...ry?id=79311556

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.

So, in other words, "two weeks to flatten the curve," was a lie. Either that or health infrastructure leaders are grossly incompetent. Every western nation has had over a year to ramp up staffing, logistics, and equipment acquisition.

Viruses do not mutate "worse." They mutate to advantage their ability to replicate. That is exactly what we see going on - increased transmissibility, no increase in pathogenicity. Which would kill more infected people more quickly, thus This virus will continue to mutate to try and keep itself able to infect and replicate. Ultimately, it reaches three point that it only results in cold symptoms - like *every* other coronavirus that wasn't artificially prevented from spreading. Like rhinoviruses and adenoviruses. Research indicates that those annoying rhinoviruses we're deadly eons ago.

[Skybird]

Sigh.

Just for you, 3catcircus, and the likes of you:

https://exploringyourmind.com/the-po...iving-present/

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sigh.

Just for you, 3catcircus, and the likes of you:

https://exploringyourmind.com/the-po...iving-present/

Hope is not a plan for success...

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you just let it run, ylu overflood hospitals, you erode the workforce available at any given time, and you increase the likelihood and speed by which WORSE mutations can and will pop up.


Your scenario is unaffordable. And careless against those being symptomtic, may it be in ICU, may it be with Long Covid.

Don’t blame COVID. It was the conscience decision by people in power which eroded the work force. In fact there were many businesses particularly small business owners that wanted to stay open. But it was a decree not COVID which told them they had to close up shop. The jobless soon discovered government unemployment benefits paid better than wages and many did not return to the work force because of it. To compete with the government freebies some corporations are now offering higher wages to entice the lazy to come back to work. Unfortunately even more small business may fail because they can’t compete with a corporations ability to pay higher wages.

No more mom and pop stores it looks to me like one big corporate take over. Like the shade tree mechanic their days are numbered.

[Buddahaid]

The pandemic didn't start that by any means, it just sped it up lately. There are many things I look for in the local stores regularly that just aren't there and I have to use Amazon. My rule is if it needs to be ordered locally than I may as well order it myself and save the trouble of another store visit.

[Skybird]

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The stores are miles away and I have deadlines.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Yes the USA still exists and I love my country and I will defend what I think is still the best thing going on this planet. I also think our media is just as important to defending our nation as the military is. I really wish they would pull their heads out their collective arses and do right by us for once. Instead of the usual political spin and drama which IMO serves absolutely no purpose other than to line their pockets and give the useful idiots something to talk about.

Same here I love my countries Denmark and Sweden
It will always be those who reject their country because their trusted Politician didn't win or got elected-They may be saying - My country is going downhill.

As I use to say
You may hate your politicians, but not your country and the soil you walk on.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Hey, I agree with you on this, unfortunately that smoke was let out of the box in, oh 1985 or so, during the Reagan years and I don't see how it can ever be put back in.

I would like to know more, can you elaborate?