[WIP] "Lochinvar" Clyde puffer

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

Crew moving about: planned

If you (or anyone else) find a way to edit characters (meaning, ability to substitute new meshes/textures or even possibly import animations), please do share how.

I was once (when making coaster pack) considering creating an entire entourage of civilians (passengers, fishermen, merchant officers) to replace the soldiers/navy sailors on civilian/neutral ships, but I couldn't find a way even to access .chr files without which even shuffling about existing meshes to get more combinations was impossible).

Still have my old research though and would still like to give our Kaleuns some pause by having them spot innocent passengers on deck of that fat nice liner

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

If you (or anyone else) find a way to edit characters (meaning, ability to substitute new meshes/textures or even possibly import animations), please do share how.

I was once (when making coaster pack) considering creating an entire entourage of civilians (passengers, fishermen, merchant officers) to replace the soldiers/navy sailors on civilian/neutral ships, but I couldn't find a way even to access .chr files without which even shuffling about existing meshes to get more combinations was impossible).

Still have my old research though and would still like to give our Kaleuns some pause by having them spot innocent passengers on deck of that fat nice liner

Hi kapuhy,

I don't think we can create new character parts or new animations with the tools we have currently available, though the program that Jeff was pointing us to a few months ago looks promising.
We can nonetheless:

• put together vanilla heads, torsos and legs to create "new" characters;
• make those character to wear hats and to hold various items;
• apply vanilla animations to them;
• make them to move between a custom set of waypoints.

The tools required for performing those tasks are Goblin Editor, notepad and (for waypoint editing) TDW's GR2 Editor.
If memory serves the process is a bit tricky because there is a specific order which must be followed when merging relevant files in Goblin Editor; right now I can't go into details though, as it has been a long time since I last messed with character, and currently I have not even the game installed.
I promise I will write a tutorial as soon as I familiarize again with those files

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by gap

Steam whistle whistling and puffing: planned

What trigger will you use to make the whistle work ?

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

What trigger will you use to make the whistle work ?

Good question. The first two ideas coming to my mind are:

- a dummy gun, so that the the boat will raise a general alarm on spotting any enemy.

- the controller (right now I don't remember the name) used for triggering heightt-dependant effects, so that the whistle will be used on heavy weather.

None of these triggers are fully satisfactory though. It would be much better if the whistle was triggered by changes of direction if only I could find a way to turn a rudder (even a dummy rudder) into a trigger. If you come up with any better idea, I will gladly take it into consideration.

On a side note, this is the effect that I will probably aim for:

[Jeff-Groves]

Interesting concept on a Dummy Rudder.
Let me try a few Ideas.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Interesting concept on a Dummy Rudder.
Let me try a few Ideas.

That idea has been hanging over my head for a while now, but so far I couldn't find a way to put it to use. How - directly or indirectly - a rudder rotation can be made to spawn an effect? That's the key point. Let me know if you find an answer

[Mister_M]

You could link the whilstling effect to the fire effect of a (fake) gun provided with (fake) AP shells and (fake) starshells, so that the boat can make noise even if the submarine has not been visually spotted.

Edit 1 : It will be a bit odd if the whistle blows up each time the ship is changing course while cruising...

Edit 2 : Maybe the trigger could be when the boat goes reverse course ? You might control the effect in the ship's .VAL file, depending on the speed (negative...). Same controller as used for bow sprays...

Edit 3 : You might use state machine controllers to control the height of a node depending on the rudder rotation (but I don't know how these controllers work ; they are used for rotating things like submarine's radio antenna & radar ; ask Anvart : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=223431). If the rudder has turned, then a node comes immediately from -10m to the proper height in order the steam effect is perfectly placed on the whistle (and then you use the height controller to spawn the effect).

[gap]

Hi Mister_M,

thank you for your contribution of ideas, please find my answers below

Originally Posted by Mister_M

You could link the whilstling effect to the fire effect of a (fake) gun provided with (fake) AP shells and (fake) starshells, so that the boat can make noise even if the submarine has not been visually spotted.

AP shells are bugged in SH5. After firing them, guns become stuck at maximum elevation and they can't fire anymore but I suppose that just one alarm would be enough, so yes, that's a nice suggestion.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Edit 1 : It will be a bit odd if the whistle blows up each time the ship is changing course while cruising...

Unless a ship is zigzagging or avoiding a collision (in which case the the whistle alarm would be appropriate), changes of course are not so common. I any case I think we can limit the maximum bumber of whistle blows through particle generator's settings.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Edit 2 : Maybe the trigger could be when the boat goes reverse course ? You might control the effect in the ship's .VAL file, depending on the speed (negative...). Same controller as used for bow sprays...

That's an idea whose feasibility I will check, but I think wakes can only spawn on the sea surface, and I want steam to come out from the whistle, not from boat's stern near the waterline

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Edit 3 : You might use state machine controllers to control the height of a node depending on the rudder rotation (but I don't know how these controllers work ; they are used for rotating things like submarine's radio antenna & radar ; ask Anvart : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=223431). If the rudder has turned, then a node comes immediately from -10m to the proper height in order the steam effect is perfectly placed on the whistle (and then you use the height controller to spawn the effect).

I have not experience with the StateMachine controller. Can any helpful and knowledgeable subsim mate explain how it works?

Else, I had thought about a "dummy rudder" trigger with its y axis tilted and a particle generator node placed on it so that when the rudder turns bone's heigh chenges and steam + whistle sound are generated. I see one problem though.
If the bone is placed near rudder's pivot center, its height variation will be modest; it will be easier for the particle generator to be triggered by waves than by sterring maneuvers. Conversely, if the bone is placed far from the pivot center, even the slightest rudder rotation will determine an appreciable height change, but then controlling where the setam will come out won't be so easy...

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by gap

Hi Mister_M,
Unless a ship is zigzagging or avoiding a collision (in which case the the whistle alarm would be appropriate), changes of course are not so common. I any case I think we can limit the maximum bumber of whistle blows through particle generator's settings.

Maybe I don't understand fully your idea, but the number of effects can be limited by the number of fake shells only. If the effect is triggered by the height of the node, then the effect will be spawned each time that the node is higher than the value specified in the height controller.

Originally Posted by gap

I have not experience with the StateMachine controller. Can any helpful and knowledgeable subsim mate explain how it works?

Yes, Anvart (see my previous message) : he created some mods to improve radar's rotation and elevation cynematics for SH3, and he knows very well how it works. You should ask him if the idea is feasible with state machine controllers.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Maybe I don't understand fully your idea, but the number of effects can be limited by the number of fake shells only. If the effect is triggered by the height of the node, then the effect will be spawned each time that the node is higher than the value specified in the height controller.

Probably you are right. I was thinking that if we set max number of number of particles low enough, and particle's life long enough, no new "whistle event" could be triggered until the old particles are removed from the game. Anyway the max particle setting setting is a per-particle-generator parameter, so it is well possible that it won't prevent the triggering of a new whistle.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Yes, Anvart (see my previous message) : he created some mods to improve radar's rotation and elevation cynematics for SH3, and he knows very well how it works. You should ask him if the idea is feasible with state machine controllers.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by gap

On a side note, this is the effect that I will probably aim for:

At 4:55 and 23:57, you have a pretty good sound :



Also, this ship has several parts in common with yours, in particular chains for turning the rudder (4:25), and the small bow davit.

Originally Posted by gap

Anchor davit's pulley swinging with waves: planned

As you can see in this video (18:11), the pulley is fixed, so it can't swing.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

At 4:55 and 23:57, you have a pretty good sound :

Excellent sounds, thank you!

Still talking about audio FX, could you please help me finding a decent sound loop, or even a clean "live" sound, which can fit a 2 Cyl Steam Compound engine as heard from the outside of the boat?

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Also, this ship has several parts in common with yours, in particular chains for turning the rudder (4:25), and the small bow davit.

I see, cool! On an side note, animating those chains when the boat is steering would be very nice, but indeed we are in the field of daydreams; in any case, I doubt we would notice this effect from periscope view lol.

Originally Posted by Mister_M

As you can see in this video (18:11), the pulley is fixed, so it can't swing.

What if a lazy crewman forgot to fix that pulley, and I promise he won't repeat the same mistake for my next model?

Subtext: I really want to experiment with the ObjPendulum controller, and I am afraid that boat's bell is too a small detail for being a worthful alternative

[gap]

Hi guys, I would like to hear your opinion on the following sounds.

Let's start with a more generic sound. This is a clean audio loop, so minimal work would be required to bring it in game:



The recording of some real steam engines (the one that I think most appropriate is heard from 00:05 to 00:08; rather short but I think I could extract anyway a loop of decent quality from it):



Last for now, the sound made by a sailing scale model (but I think it to be the recording of a real steam engine):



What do you guys think?

[Jeff-Groves]

I'd check episodes of "The Tales of Para Handy" myself.
Comedic adventures of a Clyde puffer ship.
Check parts of this Vid.


In case you wonder? I started the same Ship years ago for SH3.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

I'd check episodes of "The Tales of Para Handy" myself.
Comedic adventures of a Clyde puffer ship.
Check parts of this Vid.

Thank you Jeff

Her engine sound doesn't sound too dissimilar from the first sound loop I posted in y previous post.

On a side note, the "Vital Spark" portrayed in that sitcom was in reality the Skylight and her sister, the Starlight, built between 1936 and 1937 by Ferguson Bros, Port Glasgow, for Ross & Marshall's Light Shipping Co, Greenock, and still in their colors when the BBC series was produced

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

In case you wonder? I started the same Ship years ago for SH3.

Really? What a coincidence! I would be curious to see your own version of the boat. Did you use the same "Lochinvar" drawing as template?

More puffer drawings with hull lines can be found at the following link:
http://forums.airbase.ru/2014/12/t90...de-puffer.html