GR2 aircraft debugging (Whitley)

[kapuhy]

So here's little something I'm currently working on, a test import of aircraft model in GR2 format. The original model was created by manilov.ap (you can find his amazing aircraft models collection on Sketchfab HERE), it's Coastal Command's
Armstrong Whitworth Whitley bomber:





Textures are still unfinished and there's no campaign integration yet, I left this for when I am sure plane works 100% correctly. Which it currently does not, because I got stuck on a few bugs:

1. I have no idea which file stores ammunition types for machine guns used on aircraft. Because of this, I can't select any ammo type for wpn_Cannon controllers other than "NONE", meaning guns don't shoot.

2. For reasons unknown, "Basic" loadout of the plane does not show up in test single mission (it does in Museum), and since I seem to remember that in campaigns planes use this loadout by default, I'm worried it would show in campaign without crew and bombs.

3. This one is not "fatal" but also annoying - plane parts can break off (wings, tail etc) but it is for some reason very rare - when Sunderland gets destroyed it almost always breaks apart, while Whitley falls down in one piece in 9 out of 10 cases.

I'll keep trying to fix problems mentioned above, but I also made this thread hoping that someone might be able to point me in the right direction


The test package (containing new plane and test mission in which you can see it in action) here (requires TWoS 2.2.20 to run) can be downloaded from here:

TEST PACKAGE DOWNLOAD

[Mad Mardigan]

Seem to recall watching dog fight/plane-ship attacks... that not always did planes fall apart mid-crash or prior to crashing....

So, the fact that the plane isn't coming apart at the seams 100% of the time.. is not really a problem.

At least in My own opinion... any way... that's just My own personal observation.

Others, may or may not agree with that assessment.. & that's ok...

Other than that looks nice..

Hopefully you can get some help on sorting out the other issues you are facing with working on this aircraft...

Looking forward to seeing this being added to the roster...

M. M.

[vdr1981]

Looking great Kapuhy!

Originally Posted by kapuhy

1. I have no idea which file stores ammunition types for machine guns used on aircraft. Because of this, I can't select any ammo type for wpn_Cannon controllers other than "NONE", meaning guns don't shoot.

If I'm not mistaken, all other airplanes have ammo type set to "NONE" as well, and yet they are operational? Right?

2. For reasons unknown, "Basic" loadout of the plane does not show up in test single mission (it does in Museum), and since I seem to remember that in campaigns planes use this loadout by default, I'm worried it would show in campaign without crew and bombs.

Could it be something related to dates in planes eqp files?
EDIT: Disregard this, other airplanes don't have dates in their eqp files as well...

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

If I'm not mistaken, all other airplanes have ammo type set to "NONE" as well, and yet they are operational? Right?

They have it set to "Unknown" - usually it means you cannot edit value unless you merge file containing these values into project in Goblin. It's similar with funnel smoke, effect type is displayed as "unknown" unless you merge particles_funnelsmoke.dat with opened unit in Goblin, then you can choose smoke types.

[Rosomaha]

Welcome, kapuhy

try this: Open your plane.GR2 + plane.sim, next MERGE with (…\data\Library\) shells.dat AND +shells.sim (This should reveal the mysterious “Unknown” in the source files)

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Welcome, kapuhy

try this: Open your plane.GR2 + plane.sim, next MERGE with (…\data\Library\) shells.dat AND +shells.sim (This should reveal the mysterious “Unknown” in the source files)

Aaaah.... of course! I forgot to merge sim file.

Thank you so much

EDIT: Allright - weapons free:



By the way, smallest guns in shells.dat file are 20mm, is this what all aircraft in game are armed with? This would make planes armed (historically) with 7.7 and 12.7 mm guns tad overpowered.

[kapuhy]

I somehow debugged basic loadout, though I don't really understand what was the cause. I changed ordnance carried from Bomb_Cluster to DC_Cluster and suddenly crew and bombs were visible, and plane started to drop DC's.

So, I thought Bomb_Cluster is bugged and to test it, changed back to Bomb_Cluster... to my surprise it still works.

I suspect now the problem lied with txt file, I had situations before with ships where adding one more empty line (aka hitting enter) at end of file magically debugged it. Must have been something of that sort

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

So here's little something I'm currently working on, a test import of aircraft model in GR2 format...

Sooo nice! I have all the aircraft models by manilov (and by many other 3D modellers) stored on my HD. Baside planes, my 3D archive includes ships, submarines, land vehicles, various landmarks, etc. That's the result of years of research on the internet. If in future you are going to need a template for your own work, just ask me: there is some chance that I can help

Originally Posted by Rosomaha

Welcome, kapuhy

try this: Open your plane.GR2 + plane.sim, next MERGE with (…\data\Library\) shells.dat AND +shells.sim (This should reveal the mysterious “Unknown” in the source files)

Originally Posted by kapuhy

I somehow debugged basic loadout, though I don't really understand what was the cause. I changed ordnance carried from Bomb_Cluster to DC_Cluster and suddenly crew and bombs were visible, and plane started to drop DC's.

So, I thought Bomb_Cluster is bugged and to test it, changed back to Bomb_Cluster... to my surprise it still works.

I suspect now the problem lied with txt file, I had situations before with ships where adding one more empty line (aka hitting enter) at end of file magically debugged it. Must have been something of that sort

I think I had the same happening a while back. If memory serves, the problem was a space character after the missing equipment (or maybe no space)...

Likewise, eqp and sns files need an empty line at their end, else they will be ignored.

[Macgregor the Hammer]

Nice A.S.V. antenna detail!

If memory serves, the Whitley used an experimental pseudo-monocoque fuselage. It was corrugated aluminum and tubing that didn't work out too well. Any torsion along fuselage would tear the aircraft apart. Not a quality you want in an aircraft.

Can't wait to see the end product!

MacGregor

[gap]

Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer

If memory serves, the Whitley used an experimental pseudo-monocoque fuselage. It was corrugated aluminum and tubing that didn't work out too well. Any torsion along fuselage would tear the aircraft apart. Not a quality you want in an aircraft.

Nice point!

Torsion is something that we can't simulate in game, but fuselage fragility and it breaking apart under enemy gunfire, should be relatively easy to be achieved.

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer

Nice A.S.V. antenna detail!

Credit goes to manilov.ap, I just reduced polycount a bit and modified uv maps.

Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer

If memory serves, the Whitley used an experimental pseudo-monocoque fuselage. It was corrugated aluminum and tubing that didn't work out too well. Any torsion along fuselage would tear the aircraft apart. Not a quality you want in an aircraft.

Thanks for the hint! I might fiddle with plane's rudders to make it less maneuverable (simulating cautious handling by crew aware of their plane's fragility - though I'd have to test if AI can handle it without crashing into sea), and maybe add low hp/critical damage zone somewhere in fuselage for occasional critical hit.

Meanwhile, it's getting awful crowded in my sky with 5 new and 2 remodeled/repainted aircraft already in the pipeline, in various stages of completion.

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Credit goes to manilov.ap, I just reduced polycount a bit and modified uv maps.

That is quite some work by you anyway

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Thanks for the hint! I might fiddle with plane's rudders to make it less maneuverable (simulating cautious handling by crew aware of their plane's fragility - though I'd have to test if AI can handle it without crashing into sea)

Nice idea. On a more general note I wonder whether - within reasonable limits - wing/rudder drag coefficients can be used to simulate in game the general improvement in aircraft handling from interwar planes to late-war designs. Far from being an expert of aerodynamics, in the past I have tried to investigate which property, off the ones that are commonly listed in aircraft specs, can be used as a measure of their "agility", and I have found wing loading (i.e. the total mass / wing area ratio) to be a good compromise.

Originally Posted by kapuhy

and maybe add low hp/critical damage zone somewhere in fuselage for occasional critical hit.

A while back I have had more or less the same idea. I wanted to place a critical hit damage zones in aircraft cockpit, to simulate the killing of their pilot(s) by a lucky shot. I never tested its feasibility though. In the forst place, are critical zones going to work for air units/gun shots?

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Meanwhile, it's getting awful crowded in my sky with 5 new and 2 remodeled/repainted aircraft already in the pipeline, in various stages of completion.

Good!

Besides the planes that you have mentioned to me in one of your last emails, there is a bunch of other aircraft, missing from SH5, which had some importance in the ASW / anti-shipping / coastal patrol role both as embarked and land-based planes. Most of them are very popular and have been modelled many times, but a few of them - mostly interwar and early-war ones - despite their extensive usage early in the war, had a limited operational success and they are almost unknown to the videogaminig / 3D modelling world.

P.S: have you read my last e-amils to you?

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

P.S: have you read my last e-amils to you?

Yes, I did (thanks for the model, already ported it to Blender and started prepping it for import to SH5).

[gap]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

Yes, I did (thanks for the model, already ported it to Blender and started prepping it for import to SH5).

The US patrol bomber?

[kapuhy]

Originally Posted by gap

The US patrol bomber?