GWX+HSie wolfpack AI madness

[Hooston]

Greetings

I have HSie's hard coded fixes installed over GWX. I always try and tell the BdU when I contact a convoy and very occasionally they tell me to trail it. Yesterday I followed a large convoy all day and through the next night. Finally, with dawn approaching I attacked on my own. Early the next morning I was about to finish off some damaged ships behind the convoy when I heard gunfire and explosions in the distance. Using my super Nazi cheating powers I was able to see the entire convoy blazing away at a patch of sea, an oil patch in front of the convoy, some gunfire damage on one of the freighters and a single escort running in for a depth charge attack. The subject of all this attention was the only uboat I could find, stopped at periscope depth with the scope down, opening and closing its bow tubes.
After finishing off the stragglers I regained contact to find the shooting had stopped, the uboat was gone and all of the five escorts had also disappeared, Woohoo! Feeding time.

What do you think? Were the escorts:
Sunk by uboats? I think at least one went down because of that, hence the oil patch.

Sunk by friendly fire from the convoy? The fire was very wild and bound to hit the escorts as they carried out depth charge runs.

Still pounding a crippled uboat way behind the convoy. I should have seen/heard them doing this.



Any ideas? I guess it sort of works if you don't look through the external view but seems a bit mad. Are any of the other super mods likely to give better AI behaviour? I'm thinking NYGM? I'm not bothered about eye candy, I just want "realism".

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Hooston

Greetings

I have HSie's hard coded fixes installed over GWX. I always try and tell the BdU when I contact a convoy and very occasionally they tell me to trail it. Yesterday I followed a large convoy all day and through the next night. Finally, with dawn approaching I attacked on my own. Early the next morning I was about to finish off some damaged ships behind the convoy when I heard gunfire and explosions in the distance. Using my super Nazi cheating powers I was able to see the entire convoy blazing away at a patch of sea, an oil patch in front of the convoy, some gunfire damage on one of the freighters and a single escort running in for a depth charge attack. The subject of all this attention was the only uboat I could find, stopped at periscope depth with the scope down, opening and closing its bow tubes.
After finishing off the stragglers I regained contact to find the shooting had stopped, the uboat was gone and all of the five escorts had also disappeared, Woohoo! Feeding time.

What do you think? Were the escorts:
Sunk by uboats? I think at least one went down because of that, hence the oil patch.

Sunk by friendly fire from the convoy? The fire was very wild and bound to hit the escorts as they carried out depth charge runs.

Still pounding a crippled uboat way behind the convoy. I should have seen/heard them doing this.



Any ideas? I guess it sort of works if you don't look through the external view but seems a bit mad. Are any of the other super mods likely to give better AI behaviour? I'm thinking NYGM? I'm not bothered about eye candy, I just want "realism".

What you are observing is STOCK AI. The SH3 AI is hardcoded and NO MOD this community has ever built, changes it.

GWX did improve underwater ASW vessel sensor responsiveness.

H.Sie's mod adds wolfpacks, which are imperfect, but in some ways better than not having them at all. There has been talk of revisiting AI controlled U-boat behavior for quite some time, but as it stands now, it remains vaporware.

By all means, use whatever mods you like. However, to clarify your post for all who may read it, GWX does not do what you have claimed that it does. GWX does not change or alter the AI in any way.

[Hooston]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

What you are observing is STOCK AI. The SH3 AI is hardcoded and NO MOD this community has ever built, changes it.

Ho hum. I guess i will have to stop looking so closely. I shall "assume" the escorts all chased off after other subs and on rescue missions.
To be honest a lot of SH3's strength is that there's very limited information presented to the player and it's hard to work out what is going on. Not only does this seem more realistic but it allows the game to get away with some very dodgy simulation at times.
Thanks for the reply.

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

What you are observing is STOCK AI. The SH3 AI is hardcoded and NO MOD this community has ever built, changes it.
.

Well, assuming you are talking about escort AI, there is in fact huge difference between stock escort AI and NYGM escort AI…
It’s probably same hardcoded, but the fine tune of all stuff interacting on AI behavior makes it completely different (and often much more realistic)…

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Fifi

Well, assuming you are talking about escort AI, there is in fact huge difference between stock escort AI and NYGM escort AI…
It’s probably same hardcoded, but the fine tune of all stuff interacting on AI behavior makes it completely different (and often much more realistic)…

You cannot change the basic mechanics of the AI response. It is "set in stone" in the exe, act and dll files. The only aspect we can change with modding are elements such as the sensitivity, timing, range, and aiming settings of parameters surrounding it. It remains the same basic AI, no matter what anyone mods the relevant settings to be. You can make it "appear" to be more or maybe less competent, but it is just appearances. The AI response is the same, no matter what you do with it when modding.

Though it may be true that NYGM sensor settings are slightly tighter than those of GWX for the time being, a player's 'style of play' also more accurately determines various mission or career outcomes. Historically here at Subsim, NYGM has attracted the more "hardcore" type players and GWX has attracted more of the "sightseers" amongst its citizenry. Other reasons why, are argumentative and I have no wish for a conflict.

However, if played in a "realistic fashion," especially from mid to late war, (No free camera and those sort of things) GWX is quite deadly in its own right, when sensor settings aren't broken by various add on mods... and there have been a few over the years that have indeed broken GWX sensors. I've just tired of the argument because so many mods have been made "for GWX" and often show little or no understanding of what is being broken to achieve those modder's desired effects.

Though NYGM arguably has a slight edge in regards to sensor sensitivity (added visual sensors as I recall one element to be)....Neither NYGM or GWX... as designed can truly be effectively labeled as "unrealistic" and that is why they have stood the test of time. Though I can only speak for GWX, we have a 644 page manual that explains exactly how it is, that GWX is indeed "realistic" within the constraints of the game we work with.

There is room in the water for both.

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

However, if played in a "realistic fashion," especially from mid to late war, (No free camera and those sort of things) GWX is quite deadly in its own right, when sensor settings aren't broken by various add on mods... and there have been a few over the years that have indeed broken GWX sensors.

I absolutely agree

Conflicts between NYGM & GWX are dead… and won’t resurrect
As you said, plenty place for both!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Fifi

I absolutely agree

Conflicts between NYGM & GWX are dead… and won’t resurrect
As you said, plenty place for both!

Amen, Brother. There are ships to be sunk and aircraft to hide from!






(I wonder what happens if you try to sink an iceberg in SH3?)


Sink'em ALL, FIFI!

[Jeff-Groves]

You can't sink an Iceburg as it has no damage zones to cause it to sink.
Now what if you did a 3D Iceburg you could surface INSIDE of to hide?
Would Ships be able to hit you?