US Politics Thread 2021-24

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Didn't Trump called soldiers killed in action "losers"?

Anonymous sources only. Then again FDR never said an unkind word about Japanese American citizens but he put 120,000 of those citizens in internment camps. Words vs. actions. Take your pick.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Funny that Putin destroys any resistance by claiming " [...] Navalny and his supporters [seek] to destabilize Russia "under the guise of liberalism." They say the organization aims to change the "tenets of constitutional order" via "color revolution" — a term used to describe opposition protest in post-Soviet countries, such as the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. Navalny's supporters deny the accusation."

https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-kremli...ork/a-57561696

Putin moves to brand any critics as 'extremists', and the West believes him. So is he too liberal, too nazi or what next? Does not matter, the official made-up 'reason' does not play any role, Putin decides and that's it as usual. Too bad Navalny survived the assassination.

Hey not only do I call him a neo nazi based on that NYT article. I've also called him a racist nationalist xenophobe based on his own videos.


But you feel free to continue to support him, he's your hero not mine. I will not. As I said before we should be able to do better than support usefull idiots like the moron in the video

[Catfish]

Belleauwood visit in 2017, though the visit did not take place:
Trump "did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed."

About "John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.”"

"When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the **** are we doing that for? Guy was a ****ing loser,” the president told aides."

He also described "President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. "

Then Trump mocking Muslim soldier's mother Ghazala Khan over the death of her son and so on. So i would not take this as 'isolated events'.

"Trump has strenuously denied the claims in the report. However, the Associated Press, Washington Post and Fox News were able to independently confirm the accuracy of much of the Atlantic's report with their sources."

[Mr Quatro]

I haven't been back here since Biden took over the WH in January ... politics just doesn't interest me anymore since I was wrong about Trump.

I even told God, "why would you hear my prayers for Biden if you didn't hear them for Trump" So I just usually ignore what is going on in the WH
(except for that silly VP that snickers )

But this meeting between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva has me wondering. Remember the mistakes Trump made after meeting with Putin? He was like in a trance/shocked and said some funny things like he didn't see any reason why to blame Russia for interference in the National Election of 2016.

Something funny was going on that day ... so with that in mind I think it would be appropriate for President Biden to ask what Putin had on Trump to make him act that way.

Wow! The look on Putin's face when translated would be worth it, plus the answer.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=BingNews

White House downplays Biden-Putin summit, not expecting 'huge outcome'

President Joe Biden’s highly anticipated summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva is less than a week away -- his first big test to hold the Kremlin accountable in a face-to-face setting on a range of pressing issues, including the imprisonment of dissident Alexei Navalny, interference in American elections, Russian aggression in Ukraine and recent cyberattacks on the U.S

[FireDragon76]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

I'm going to assume you are a relatively young guy - late teens to early-mid 20's, perhaps? Or you've just led a very sheltered life in an echo chamber.

I'm 45 years old. And I grew up in a military family and seen many different cultures and spoken several languages. I'm hardly naive.

Until you've actually served in the military, you'll never understand the difference between Trump and Biden re: the military. Most current active duty troops couldn't care less about whether or not a current candidate had a deferment in Vietnam. What they care about is a President who isn't going to carelessly use them for cynical uses. They want a President who isn't going to use them like some medieval prince. Remind me again who deployed guardsmen to DC for the past 5 months for no reason, and thought nothing of having them sleep in parking garages when there was no reason for them to do so? Remind me again which president didn't start any new wars and started the effort to withdraw the remaining soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan? Which president signed the Mission Act so that veterans have more choice regarding healthcare while trying to fix a bloated VA bureaucracy? Which one called them military stupid bastards? Which one just recently referred to this year's USCGA class as a dull bunch during commencement?

We live in a republic whose military was constituted to have civilian leadership, so even if that's true, it's irrelevant. The military's job is to obey civilian orders, not judge the wisdom of those policies.

And before you go down that path, Trump bad-mouthing McCain is fair game since he was a politician wearing big-boy pants.

What Trump said about McCain was simply inhumane, petty, and without justification. It was far from magnanimous and presidential. It was the behavior of a bully and a coward.


Real character doesn't involve trying to tear someone down simply because of political disagreements.

[MaDef]

We live in a republic whose military was constituted to have civilian leadership, so even if that's true, it's irrelevant. The military's job is to obey civilian orders, not judge the wisdom of those policies.

I beg to differ. The only civilian authorized to give orders to the military is the President of the United States, as he has been designated as Commander in Chief of the Armed forces in article II section II of the Constitution. The "military's "job" is to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. It's right there in the enlistment oath.

I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by FireDragon76

We live in a republic whose military was constituted to have civilian leadership, so even if that's true, it's irrelevant. The military's job is to obey civilian orders, not judge the wisdom of those policies.

What Trump said about McCain was simply inhumane, petty, and without justification. It was far from magnanimous and presidential. It was the behavior of a bully and a coward.


Real character doesn't involve trying to tear someone down simply because of political disagreements.

Wise words, but political history shows far worse things have been said of opponents. One president ended up killing a man over words.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

I beg to differ. The only civilian authorized to give orders to the military is the President of the United States, as he has been designated as Commander in Chief of the Armed forces in article II section II of the Constitution. The "military's "job" is to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. It's right there in the enlistment oath.

This. I would argue that the Democratic party and their supporters are extremely close to, if not actually, domestic enemies of the Constitution and should be fought at every opportunity by any means necessary.

Also of note - the support and defend the Constitution against all enemies text is the same for both officer and enlisted. It's the whole basis of the US - not a particular administration or a particular slate of senators and congressmen or any interfering foreign government, but of the principles upon which the country was founded. To the point that an oath in some form can be traced back to 1775.

I would point to Federalist Papers #46 referring to the power of federal and state government... "These gentlemen must here be reminded of their error. They must be told that the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone, and that it will not depend merely on the comparative ambition or address of the different governments, whether either, or which of them, will be able to enlarge its sphere of jurisdiction at the expense of the other."

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Here's a question, if any active member of the military was part of what happened on January 6th would that count as mutiny as well as treason or at least sedition?



If so Article 94 of the UCMJ is pretty clear what the punishment is: Maximum Punishment

For all offenses under Article 94, death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.



https://www.thebalancecareers.com/pu...e-ucmj-3356859

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Kptlt. Neuerburg

Here's a question, if any active member of the military was part of what happened on January 6th would that count as mutiny as well as treason or at least sedition?



If so Article 94 of the UCMJ is pretty clear what the punishment is: Maximum Punishment

For all offenses under Article 94, death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.



https://www.thebalancecareers.com/pu...e-ucmj-3356859

Probably not since nobody who was involved has been charged with mutiny, sedition or treason. But it really depends if the prosecutor believes he has evidence to convict them. There were a great many people who had every right to be there and participate in a protest peacefully and had nothing to do with the drama. Just because someone was there or was in the military doesnt automatically make them guilty of sedetion, treason or mutiny.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Probably not since nobody who was involved has been charged with mutiny, sedition or treason. But it really depends if the prosecutor believes he has evidence to convict them. There were a great many people who had every right to be there and participate in a protest peacefully and had nothing to do with the drama. Just because someone was there or was in the military doesnt automatically make them guilty of sedetion, treason or mutiny.

That might be true but that's also missing the point. The point being if an active member of the military was part of the group of people who forced their way into Congress would that go against the oath they took at the time of their induction to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic? And if so would such action(s) be punishable under Article 94 or any other articles of the UCMJ?



I should of been clear that this was also a hypothetical question.

[mapuc]

Even though I disbelieve the story that Trump will return in August and rumour about a Coup. I hope that the right authorities in USA is monitoring this.

It could be false all the way, but if there are generals in the US army who are more pro-Trump than pro-constitution. Then you have a problem.

Markus

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Even though I disbelieve the story that Trump will return in August and rumour about a Coup. I hope that the right authorities in USA is monitoring this.

It could be false all the way, but if there are generals in the US army who are more pro-Trump than pro-constitution. Then you have a problem.

Markus

Except many Americans see being pro-Trump *as* being pro-constitution. I can't disagree.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Kptlt. Neuerburg

That might be true but that's also missing the point. The point being if an active member of the military was part of the group of people who forced their way into Congress would that go against the oath they took at the time of their induction to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic? And if so would such action(s) be punishable under Article 94 or any other articles of the UCMJ?



I should of been clear that this was also a hypothetical question.

The answer is an unqualified "it depends."

Did they view the election certification process as being unconstitutional? Did they receive and disobey orders to not attend the speech? Did they disobey law enforcement? From the video it certainly looks like many pepper just walked right in without having to storm the place.

There is significant leeway for commanders to award NJP even if not rising to the level of criminal conduct. Article 134 is the catch-all if they can't pin anything else on you...

[Gorpet]

[QUOTE=FireDragon76;2751975]I'm 45 years old. And I grew up in a military family and seen many different cultures and spoken several languages. I'm hardly naive.


We live in a republic whose military was constituted to have civilian leadership, so even if that's true, it's irrelevant. The military's job is to obey civilian orders, not judge the wisdom of those policies.



What Trump said about McCain was simply inhumane, petty, and without justification. It was far from magnanimous and presidential. It was the behavior of a bully and a coward.

Yes , I personally think you talk about things you personally haven't experienced. So Mister Dragon born in 1976 I'll call ya and raise you up one. Did your party and military family vote 100 percent to retaliate after 9/11?