GER politics thread

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

^Nothing compares to the Berlin airport...

Would you like to tell us about it?

[Skybird]

The latest narration on it in English I found.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/travel...-counting.html

Costs exploding. Five years late and counting. Too small already at planning state. Weekly costs of millions to just maintain the construction site where no work gets done. The city state of Berlin is not rich, but highly corrupt and subsidized by other states. But always having a big, super-wide mouth. I know Berlin since decades, I lived there. Bah.

And what the article does not say: since some months now first legal experts and external construction experts say the mess is so complete that the whole place will never open and probably will need to get dismantled.

Incometence, planning dilletantism, impostors, personal animosities, fraud, corruption, a completely incompetent senate (Berlin politics since decades are a mess...) - it all came together.

You will find no case in wole Europe that is even close to this mess, not even in Greece.

Hey, in 2013 short before the planned opening I said "Never! Not before another 5 years - minimum!" And now 2018 is coming...

[Jimbuna]

^Apply for more EU subsidies

[Catfish]

^ what do you think we'll do with the 50 billions

[Jimbuna]

Give it to some net receiver no doubt

[Skybird]

Turkey's new sultan Erdoghan seems to have gotten what he wanted, a new state order with him as the strong Führer, so the coup he staged last year (I take it for granted that he has been the driving force behind it) and the tens of thousands of journalists, critics, intellectuals arrested, finally have paid off. Thats is no surprise, since a majority of the Turks has voted for Erdoghan and the AKP. However, the gap between Ynd Nay is exytremely close, a hair's width only.

Considering the last detail, the narrowness of this decision, somethign else catches the attention. Of the Turks in Germany, two in three have voted for the change in Turkey.

What does this say about their willingness to integrate into the state order in Germany, and their attitude towards "democracy"? A rethoric question only, I do not wait for answers, since everybody can know them already. Its like I always said. Integration of Turks in Germany, as integration of Mulsim groups in Germany and in Europe in general, is a disaster story. It has failed, due to active resistence by the "migrants". Colonists is a better word.

The last echoes of the old Kemalistic order has been swept away now. The old Turkey of pre-Erdoghan times is no more. The militrary now by majopirty supports erdoghan, and has betrayed its function as guardian of the Kemalist constitution. Which again is no surprise, sinc eErdighan since one decade has systematically exchnaged the officer corps and has made sure that his followers advance through the ranks in record time, to bring them in control of the armed forces.

Merkels reaction? She appealed to Erdoghan to be reaosnable. This while 15 German nationals are held in arrest since months and all embassy contact to them being rejected, Turkey'S intelligence service being probabaly th emost actove and one of the most hostile ones in Germans, erdoghan critics are being hunted and targetted by Turkish agents in Germany, and the offences by Erdoghan do not end.

I have started to read the German ediiton of this book by Jason brennan, "Against democracy". One of these bhooks that make you aware of how rotten and misled the fundament of our western order is. We get what we asked for, and so we deserve it.

[Catfish]

63 percent of Turks living in Germany voted FOR Erdoghan.
What a pity that the vote was secret, otherwise i would really like those 63 percent to migrate to, and live in, the new Turkey.

[Rockstar]

Freedom and Democracy in action!

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Catfish

63 percent of Turks living in Germany voted FOR Erdoghan.
What a pity that the vote was secret, otherwise i would really like those 63 percent to migrate to, and live in, the new Turkey.

They already do. New Turkey is here in Germany and Europe. Haven't you noticed that yet?

[ValoWay]

Here's erdogan's upcoming speech. I understand it's top secret, though! So keep it to yourself..



http://www.emersonkent.com/speeches/returning_fire.htm

[Jimbuna]

One shall reap what one sows.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

Hey Catfish!
Sounds like you were thinking of this?



I got this per mail today... I wonder who sent it... guess what! A friend from TURKEY (!!!!!!!!!)

I don'T recall exactly how often I was congratulated for being German when I were in the ME and North africa and Turkey - and got told how proud we Ger,mans should be that we managed to kill so many Jews. Great achievement. And they meant this as a serious complimentent. I heard that in Egypt, Turkey, Iran.

What I really do not understand is what logic you Germans follow:
First you invite them (as guest-workers).

We did not. Back in those days when it all started, and the social ministry were in socialist SPD hands, it was the SPD tellig the Germans that the Turks were of a culture that would not integrate well. But Washington put Germany under massive pressure and effectively blackmailed Germany, because Washington wanted NATO compliance by Turkey and the right to station missiles there - and Turkey said the price for that woiuld be that germany takes up all the poor and hungry masses from Anatolian heartland that Turkey did not want to come up for. And so it started - against the explicit German will not to get them.

So againb, to make this one clear - Germany in the 50s and 60s started n egotiaitosn with Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia to have guests workers coming to germany. Turkey was EXCLUDED from the German wishlist. It was Washsington that forced Germany to let the Turks in, and then it was Washington that demanded that the treaties with Turkey limiting the stay and banning the family movement should be ignored.

Then you fail to integrate them.

It is not our job to integrate them - they are the foreigner sin our place, and they are the once who came here fromt heir hoem country. Our place, our rules, one would assume. The absolute minimum that one can and must demand from foreign migrants is that they integrate into the rules and habits and society of the new place they went to. That is their mandatory obligaiton, their duty that they have to fill, without conditions, period. Its not up to the local population and owners of the palce to adapt to the foreigner - the foreigner has to adapt to the local residents. In other words: as a migrant, you have to integrate yourself. You do not get integrated, nor do you expect to have others integrating you. You have to do it yourself.

You never send those "guests" back.

The treaties wioth Turkey bakc from the early 60s said that all Turkish guest workers had to leave the country again after I think 5 or ten years, I am not certain. that were the same treaties signed with other coutnries as well: Greece, Italy, Yugoslavia. Also, it was originally banned to shuttle in families once the father had arrived in Germany. Twenty years later, indeed most Italians, Yugos, Greek started to return, only a few left in germany, well integrated and doiung their own business, mosly restaurants. Just the Turks never moved. Never integrated. They shuttled their families in, and Washington demanded from Germany to ignore the treaties signed, after Turkey set up new conditions for their compliance regarding NATO policies. Just later the solcial polkcies in germany chnaged radically, and the left found their heart for the Turks, since orginbally the vast majority of Muslim migrants, and so the Turks, voted SPD, and so the "migration" of theirs to germany was a welcomed strengtening of the SPD's voters' pool.

You even let them vote for their home country IN YOUR country.

Point taken, you are right on this. I complained about this myself before already. Its stupid. Even now, yesterday, some Green female carricature - Claudia Roth, a very special friend of mine - demanded that after 2 in 3 Turks voted for Erdoghan and in the Ruhrgebiet even 3 in 4, that this was Turkish revenge for the Germans not being welcoming enough and that we need to give them even more and easier double-citizenships and German passports... For retards like this woman, it is always us who are guilty. Strangely, problems with migrants we do not have in general at all, and the Greeks, and Italians and former Yugoslavs, and Spaniards, all that did not return to their homecountries but stayed here, are well integrated and are fine and there are no problems. It is just one special subgroup of migrants that time and again pose problems, and that is Muslims. Since Turks are the dominant Muslim faction, Turks are overrepresented therefore. Also overrepresented in crime statistics, in bad school scorings, social wellfare net receiving, unemployement. Usually you do not find many Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Dutch, Danish, Polish, French, Brits, Americans, Canadians, South Americans in these negative statistics. But when you look at a Muslim migrant group, the negative statistcs scorings immediaterly go up.

And that is our fault...?

No. Its their fault.

And then still you do not tell them to leave when you got aware that they like your country less than their "home"-country?

Again, guilty as charged. They use our own stupidity and cowardice against us. Its our own German idiocy. We think we mjst always demonstate to the world that we are not the evil bad Germans anymore, that we are no Nazis anymore. To modern Germans, standing up for legitimate German rights equals Nazism. Thats why the Greek - on the Euro-crisis - and the Turks swing the Nazi-club against us so unrestrained, and comploare Germns to Nazis the moment Germans, Germany do not comply with their demands.

That FdJ-agitator and propagandist Angela Merkel led Germany into that "refugeee-deal" with Turkey, making Germany extrmeely vulnerale for blakcmailign and abise that way, of course also has somethign to do with it. Merkel'S cabinet wanted to close the borders when they realsied what a desaster they had unleashed back in 2015 - and then they shied away since they feared the power of the images in the intenraitonal press once the borders would have been shut down. None of the whole cabint crew was willing to take that responsibility, these cowardish traitors.

What I mean: Why do these 63% percent stay in Germany when they prefer to vote in that manner?

They take the rights but not the duties. Mostly, they are still better off with their lives over here, than they would be in Turkey. But complaining and criticising they nevertheless can, and remaning Turkish by hearts. Like so many Muslim migrant groups, the Turks never came to Germany to leave again, or to integrate. The guest workers from other countries did - not the Turks.

Add to the religious thing the ultra-strong Turkish nationalism, and then you have it.

Really shaking my head.

Me too. As I usually say, and I mean that serious: Germans are hysteric romantics. They do not cooly calculate, that is just a stupid cliche. Germans want to feel. They think with the heart. And that is why they are so vulnerable for appeals to their sentiments and lower instincts. That explains a lot of the dramas in German history.

Thinking is for cold-hearted traders, ios for the much hated englische Krämerseele. We do not rationalise. We feel!

Or better - they feel like this. Myself, I do not feel typically German at all. And I am not a typical German. I am a foreigner in my own country of birth. Too cold-blooded and heartless I am, I get told. Too rational.

"Rational" - in Germany, that is an offence! Well, I thank for the compliment that it indeed is.

[Skybird]

^

Forgive the many typos that I produce en masse, I just cannot type well, and I am too lazy and too impatient to correct my texts endlessly once I am finished, an unforgivable character flaw, I know I know... . "Was Hänschen nicht lernt, lernt Hans nimmermehr." (= What young Hans[chen] has never learnt, old Hans will not learn anymore. )

edit:
P.S. The treaty I referred to, was signed by a government under Konrad Adenauer CDU) in 1961, after such treaties were signed with Spain, Greece in the imminent years directly before. The German demnd for workers was immense at that time. The German history telling is uncomplete on it usually, for the importane of the conflict between Adenauer and Ludwig Erhard (SPD) gets usually ignored. Adenauer thought of the economy as a tool that had to obey foreign political paradigms, where as Erhard, only formally a SPD member but in fact a libertarian and economic realist (father of the so-called German Wirtschaftswunder), spoke against this view and poitned out that economic laws, like natural laws, could not be violated without damaging the economy sooner or later. Both men were at odds with each other, and since Erhard was a very untypical politicians not caring for party borders, he managed to collect the hositlity of all parties - despite the fundamental truth and success of his policies. Erhard was strictly against the Turks, saying that their culturla background and European culture would not match well. Adenauer wanted to obey the Ameican demands, to establish Germany better again oin the American poltical radar, since Germany at that tiem still was nothign more than juist a tiny, obdient vasall, which it remaiend to be for even more decades to come. And so the decision on the Turkish treaty was shifted from Erhard's ministry of ecnomy to the foreign ministry, which obeyed Adenauer.

After signing of the treaty with Turkey (and before that, Spain, Italy, Greece), more such treaties were signed with Tunesia, Southkorea, Yugoslavia, and Portugal.

And a correction: the so-called rotation principle, that demanded workers to leave again, said that the time they could stay was just 2 years (not 5 or 10 years as I qoted by memory above).

The final verdict on the guest worker strategy is controversial. While some say it made sure the industry in Germany of the 60s and 70s could grow, others point out that only heavy industrial structures were supported by this, while new technologies and new economic foci were hindered by it. Considering the immense negative heritage the massive Muslim migration has caused for Germany from then until today, I tend to see it mostly negative. The consequences of it, the price we pay for it, have become evident not before the early 90s. But since then they grew into something that now has run out of of control. The genie is out of the bottle - biggest mistake Europe made since 1933 and 1939.

[ikalugin]

http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschla...uestung-panzer

Originally Posted by ikalugin

http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschla...uestung-panzer

Our forces are in a bad shape indeed - but I doubt the articles accuracy since it claims we have 4 class 212 submarines, when we have 6 since 2016. That's why I never rely on anything military coming from the 'regular' media.

Just the other day I read an article about "the Russian Akula class" which was about the (Nato) typhoon class - picturing a pr971 in the header. Ouch.
That's a good example why not to take the press serious when it's about anything military.