AI behaviour

Zero Niner · 12-17-21, 01:14 AM

June 1942, on patrol in the South China Sea off Hong Kong. It's night time and radar picks up a small convoy headed my way from the south, which turns out to be a CH-28 class sub chaser in the lead followed by a merchant ship astern.
I manage to get ahead, submerge and lie in wait. The escort passes me without noticing me, and I launch 2 torpedoes at the merchant, both hitting. The ship soon stops dead in the water, and I pass underwater to its other side but before I can manoeuvre into position to launch a 3rd torpedo sonar picks up another merchant coming my way from the north.
I deal with this 2nd merchant then fire a 3rd torpedo at the first merchant which sinks it.
Throughout this engagement, apart from firing a few illumination shells, the escort does nothing. It does not seek me out, or go to high speed to chase me down even with the 2nd merchant taking hits. It does not race to where it thinks I am and drop depth charges. Instead it just sits dead in the water (map says "stationary") and only starts moving slowly on its northerly course when the ship it was escorting sank.

I'm not sure if this behaviour is an anomaly or normal. I've not had many hours in FotRSU, but when I played GFO the escorting DDs would race towards me and drop depth charges. It would circle around stricken ships even if the rest of the convoy moved on. So the difference in AI behaviour is quite stark, to say the least.

Bubblehead1980 · 12-17-21, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

June 1942, on patrol in the South China Sea off Hong Kong. It's night time and radar picks up a small convoy headed my way from the south, which turns out to be a CH-28 class sub chaser in the lead followed by a merchant ship astern.
I manage to get ahead, submerge and lie in wait. The escort passes me without noticing me, and I launch 2 torpedoes at the merchant, both hitting. The ship soon stops dead in the water, and I pass underwater to its other side but before I can manoeuvre into position to launch a 3rd torpedo sonar picks up another merchant coming my way from the north.
I deal with this 2nd merchant then fire a 3rd torpedo at the first merchant which sinks it.
Throughout this engagement, apart from firing a few illumination shells, the escort does nothing. It does not seek me out, or go to high speed to chase me down even with the 2nd merchant taking hits. It does not race to where it thinks I am and drop depth charges. Instead it just sits dead in the water (map says "stationary") and only starts moving slowly on its northerly course when the ship it was escorting sank.

I'm not sure if this behaviour is an anomaly or normal. I've not had many hours in FotRSU, but when I played GFO the escorting DDs would race towards me and drop depth charges. It would circle around stricken ships even if the rest of the convoy moved on. So the difference in AI behaviour is quite stark, to say the least.

Several possibilities or a combo thereof...

In stock/GFO escorts have best or close to it, in sound gear and sonar, so no difference between say a subchaser and a top of the line fleet destroyer. In reality, there was quite the difference especially until later phase in war. The top of line vessels such as destroyers received the best gear, a sub chaser like the CH-28 in 1942 would not have the best gear and probably not even the best of crews. So while he was alerted, could not detect you submerged so never had a fix on your location. Stock had a limited roster and made every ASW vessel the same basically. When he was sitting still, he was listening trying to locate you, you have been out of his hydrophone range. I had to adjust this in TMO 2.5 to solve this issue, it was happening too often. Mods such as FOTRS and TMO have various types of vessels. So facing a second line vessel with a likely unskilled crew, 1942 and all is likely the major issue.

Another factor could be the weather...sea state matters, if had choppy seas, likely made it difficult for them to locate you. If you were on silent running, that has an effect as well. It appears the way the sim does silent running is your sub has two types of electric engines, regular and then a "silent drive", when silent running is active, your sub operates on these engines and does not emit the normal noise. Unfortunately, if you're on silent running and some distance away , can make it difficult to locate. Then again in most situations one has to go to silent running during approach to get close enough to fire or will be heard. This can great situation where escort does not hear your boat even after alerted, even after sinking etc. This can make for anticlimactic and boring patrols if happens often. I usually cut silent running just after torpedoes hit, to simulate those moments when alerted escorts are searching, then when have to dive to rig for depth charge, rig for silent running and they will come to attack.

In summation...

You were facing a second line vessel in early war, likely the crew settings was set to competent or below. What sensors it does have may need tweaked to be a bit more sensitive if you got away with that much.

Zero Niner · 12-17-21, 06:24 AM

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. Yes, the sea state was moderately choppy and I was on silent runnng.

propbeanie · 12-17-21, 10:47 AM

If you don't mind Zero Niner, what boat are you in, where did you sail from, and on what date. Also, do you have the exact date of the instance? If you could also post your mod list, if it is other than just FotRSU, including any mods from the AddInModzPak.

We'll double-check the CH-28. While it is a lower-class escort, it should have at least given some semblence of attempting to find you. Did you happen to measure the distance between the escort and the ship? What we have found is in some groups, the "escorts" are not really "escorts", but just happen to be in the area at the time the player is there. However, it still should be more "aggressive".

Zero Niner · 12-17-21, 12:20 PM

No problem. Here are the details:

Boat - Sargo class, based in Fremantle
Date - night of Jun 7 & 8 1942.
Mods - just 2, apart from FotRSU 1.46:
- Webster's 300' underwater visibility for v1.5
- FJB camera mod for GFO mod v1.1

Unfortunately I don't have a save of the attack to check the distance, but it definitely was a 2-ship convoy with the escort in front and the merchant in line astern behind. During my approach to set up the attack the 2 ships both changed course to a roughly northerly course - about 350 deg if I recall.

Hope this helps.

propbeanie · 12-17-21, 02:32 PM

Had you purchased the SJ prior to June 1, 1942? We'll have to do some testing with and without the two other mods you have there, and see if they are influencing the AI behavior. I have never used them, and we had always just assumed the water mod was fine, with no one reporting issues, but I suppose we should test them eventually... we'll have to look at them from an ID conflict POV, as in Let's grab the ID's, and see if maybe we're accidentally "killing" the killers - or if maybe it is actually changing the sensor behavior...

12-17-21, 01:14 AM	#1
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,032 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	AI behaviour June 1942, on patrol in the South China Sea off Hong Kong. It's night time and radar picks up a small convoy headed my way from the south, which turns out to be a CH-28 class sub chaser in the lead followed by a merchant ship astern. I manage to get ahead, submerge and lie in wait. The escort passes me without noticing me, and I launch 2 torpedoes at the merchant, both hitting. The ship soon stops dead in the water, and I pass underwater to its other side but before I can manoeuvre into position to launch a 3rd torpedo sonar picks up another merchant coming my way from the north. I deal with this 2nd merchant then fire a 3rd torpedo at the first merchant which sinks it. Throughout this engagement, apart from firing a few illumination shells, the escort does nothing. It does not seek me out, or go to high speed to chase me down even with the 2nd merchant taking hits. It does not race to where it thinks I am and drop depth charges. Instead it just sits dead in the water (map says "stationary") and only starts moving slowly on its northerly course when the ship it was escorting sank. I'm not sure if this behaviour is an anomaly or normal. I've not had many hours in FotRSU, but when I played GFO the escorting DDs would race towards me and drop depth charges. It would circle around stricken ships even if the rest of the convoy moved on. So the difference in AI behaviour is quite stark, to say the least.

12-17-21, 10:47 AM	#4
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,749 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	If you don't mind Zero Niner, what boat are you in, where did you sail from, and on what date. Also, do you have the exact date of the instance? If you could also post your mod list, if it is other than just FotRSU, including any mods from the AddInModzPak. We'll double-check the CH-28. While it is a lower-class escort, it should have at least given some semblence of attempting to find you. Did you happen to measure the distance between the escort and the ship? What we have found is in some groups, the "escorts" are not really "escorts", but just happen to be in the area at the time the player is there. However, it still should be more "aggressive". __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-17-21, 02:32 PM	#6
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,749 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Had you purchased the SJ prior to June 1, 1942? We'll have to do some testing with and without the two other mods you have there, and see if they are influencing the AI behavior. I have never used them, and we had always just assumed the water mod was fine, with no one reporting issues, but I suppose we should test them eventually... we'll have to look at them from an ID conflict POV, as in Let's grab the ID's, and see if maybe we're accidentally "killing" the killers - or if maybe it is actually changing the sensor behavior... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-17-21, 06:24 AM	#3
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,032 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. Yes, the sea state was moderately choppy and I was on silent runnng.

12-17-21, 12:20 PM	#5
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,032 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	No problem. Here are the details: Boat - Sargo class, based in Fremantle Date - night of Jun 7 & 8 1942. Mods - just 2, apart from FotRSU 1.46: - Webster's 300' underwater visibility for v1.5 - FJB camera mod for GFO mod v1.1 Unfortunately I don't have a save of the attack to check the distance, but it definitely was a 2-ship convoy with the escort in front and the merchant in line astern behind. During my approach to set up the attack the 2 ships both changed course to a roughly northerly course - about 350 deg if I recall. Hope this helps.