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09-11-14, 05:58 AM | #1576 | |||||||||||||
Lucky Jack
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Tell me, when and where in history has such a place existed? And how long did it exist for? Quote:
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Deny a new feudal caste to diactate half a billion people how they have to live, how they have to decide, and how they have to think. The EU has caused havoc with its growing cedntrelaism and increaisng powers. Not disagreeing, there should definitely be an overhaul of how the EU works. Quote:
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Europe as a collection of individual nations cannot compete with Russia, America or China. This is a fact, Germany on its own cannot compete with any of them, it does not have the industrial, economic or military power, not now, not even if it began a crash course of re-industrialisation. European nations have not recovered from the Second World War in terms of industry, admittedly this is not helped in Germany by the fact that it spent the best part of fifty years split in two. This is a fact, look at the figures and look at history. Russia is not the Soviet Union nor is it Tsarist Russia, America is not the Wild West any more and China is not a peasant land of serfs (well...not entirely). They have all moved on and grown stronger, they are all bigger than we are in all ways. They have bigger armies than individual European nations, they have bigger economies and they have bigger industries. Now, the scenario put forward by Neal invisions that America leaves Europe to its own devices, as has been dreamed about by many anti-Americans in Europe for decades. The EU has supposedly been propped up by America so it's also imagine that that collapses and everyone goes back to how things were pre-EEC and NATO falls apart. Everyone has their own economy, army and industry and co-operation is between individual states rather than as an entity. Now what? How does Germany plan to remain relevant in a market where it is outperformed by everyone? How would defence work? If Russia did decide to rearrange Eastern Europe by force, who would defend them? Is appeasement the answer? Lots of supposition, and as you have already pointed out, the likelihood of America going isolationist is very slim and a very bad idea, but surely you must understand that by facts and figures alone, the only way that Europe can remain a global power is through a unified entity such as the EU? I'm not denying that the EU needs reform, however as a group of individual nations, Europe cannot compete with any of the major powers of the world. This is a fact. |
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09-11-14, 06:10 AM | #1577 |
Navy Seal
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It will go down as it has always been in European history.
If a major outside threat emerges we will stop killing each other, kill the enemy and then start killing each other again. But then again. You think it would be easy to get the population fired up for a war against another european country. With all the young people mingling and travelling with other nationalities ??? Most of us have more friends abroad than at home. You give a mortar and tell me to shell England and I'll hit you with it. You tell me to shell the neighboring village and I'll pay for the ammo myself. |
09-11-14, 06:20 AM | #1578 | |
Lucky Jack
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09-11-14, 06:38 AM | #1579 |
Ocean Warrior
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Russia at moment (sadly) lacks power to rearrange the Eastern Europe by force, at least provided that we do it have Far East completely covered. What we need is another industrialisation, which may happen due to the western trade restrictions.
As to the xenophobia and nationalism - they appear to be a natural dialectic response to the EU issues of cultural creep (remove kebab) and postmodernistic revolution (ban gay people). |
09-11-14, 08:24 AM | #1580 | ||
Born to Run Silent
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I feel the same way about the US, why do we keep hearing "the rise of China" as any kind of threat? I don't know, but that's the way the media and politicians paint the picture. Quote:
I understood all you followed with. Don't necessarily agree, as far as internationalizing of the oil industry. But anyway, all it will take is a new Reagan with vision, who knows how to frame the objective: pull the military out of foreign entanglements, mothball 3/4 of the military andcut the defense budget by 90%, secure the borders, evict all illegal aliens, revamp the welfare state around jobs this will open up, and move to nuclear power plants to free up oil production for autos. Anyway, why Scotland? Other than the gorgeous women and manly men, that is.
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09-11-14, 08:27 AM | #1581 |
Lucky Jack
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Well, things like Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, of course it depends on what you term as isolationism and how far you want to take it.
Oh, and Scotland because it's nearer to me than Denmark, although Denmark is a pretty nice place...and redheads, of course. |
09-11-14, 08:31 AM | #1582 |
Ocean Warrior
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It appears that majority of our population do view NATO as a military threat to Russia, if this is what you are asking.
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09-11-14, 08:34 AM | #1583 |
Ace of the Deep
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I think the term isolationism always presents a false dichotomy. That either the US dominates the world, or it pulls up the oceanic drawbridge and withdraws from it completely. The US is part of an international community either way. We have to learn to live in that ambiguous region in-between.
Yeah, I know, ambiguity is scary. |
09-11-14, 08:38 AM | #1584 |
Born to Run Silent
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Hmm... they don't realize that NATO exists because of the USSR's takeover of Eastern Europe after WWII?
Oh, well, I can understand that. When I was in Moscow in 1995, I visited the freshly built Great Patriotic War Museum. There was nothing in it about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, the Soviet invasion of Poland and Finland... so I guess, yeah, the average Russian probably thinks the US and NATO are bent on militarily attacking Russia. I hope we win, so we get your rockets. We don't have any way to get our astronauts into space any more.
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09-11-14, 08:56 AM | #1585 | |
The Old Man
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where would you stop? in Paris? or New York? what would you do with the people? 50% to Siberia, 50% a bullet in the head? speaking of which...what is this creep still doing here? I've already sent two reports (severe trolling etc etc) and the guy feels as free as a bird with his BS. People got brigged for lesser trolling. Are mods sleeping? Don't you see hes playing with you? He keeps repeating over and over the same dumb phrases without referring relevant posts, account made August 2014 (really?) and you let this game going on? I bet if I made my own '9/11 was a big lie' thread, I would leave the brig until Christmas or Easter. Wake the .... up. |
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09-11-14, 09:13 AM | #1586 |
Ocean Warrior
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This is about the post Soviet history.
Ie NATO is viewed as a threat because it is a military alliance that we are not part of, that only has to confront us in it's area of responsibility (as everyone else is either in it, on the way to joining it, or is friendly/neutral to it, with exception of Belorussia ofc), that was expanding towards us with a clear intent of enroaching on all our western frontiers and members of which were conducting numerous wars for dubious reasons. I mean what not to feel threatened about, especially after the losses of the GPW (and general Russian historical paranoia of being invaded by -nationstatename-) ? |
09-11-14, 09:18 AM | #1587 | ||
Stowaway
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Take all of his previous historical examples which he uses to support his utopian ideal and measure their time line to becoming either a failed corrupt mini state or a failed corrupt mega state. The outcome is always the same, bureaucracy, corruption, nepotism, despotism, tyranny. Quote:
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09-11-14, 11:42 AM | #1588 | |
Ocean Warrior
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Regarding Ukraine I would be glad to see it independent. Seems it is the will of the people there. I don't care weather the Ukrainian identity is a myth created by stupid starved to death victimized peasants or Kiev's deported intelligencia. |
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09-11-14, 11:49 AM | #1589 |
Dominant Wolf
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And pretty much at the same time, people living in Europe - who can't stand any more to live in that lobbies&banking dictatorship the European Union is - massively voted against the European Union, and for a return to sovereign nations, contradicting one more time the media - disinformation - as a whole, ridiculing that ultra-european stage work the Maidan was...
Return of the real ?
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09-11-14, 01:58 PM | #1590 | |
Ocean Warrior
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As to the nationalism/fascism - it's radical forms are prosecuted (people get real prison terms), it's (nationalism) moderate forms (which are accepted as permisive by global comunity) are ridiculed (there is no decent right wing party in Russia, LDPR is regarded as a joke by the majority). Contrary to that sensible policy Ukraine (and certain EU members) support NAZI organisations (including those responsible for participating in Holocaust), their veterans and so on. The historic myth I was talking about in relation to Ukraine is that Ukranian people are a superior, older and more respectable slavic nation, in comparison to evil asian-mongolic Russian horde. |
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nato, putin, ukraina, ukraine, ukrajna |
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