Keeping safe distance

[AlfredoZ]

Hi,

I play SH5 with WOS mod since a few days (BTW thx to the community for making the game playable). I played SH since the very first edition in the early nineties, but not excessible. When I purchased SH4, I experienced an overheating of my GFX card and my screen went black after several minutes of gameplay, so I stopped playing it. SH5 was bugged so bad, that I gave up after a few days. But now I made another approach on it with Wolves Of Steel and... YES! Finally it's fun!!!

What I wonder about is, if there's some kind of rough estimate for the distance I have to keep from my target to not be seen.
I guess it depends on if I'm surfaced or submerged with periscope, if it's day or night and how fast I'm going. But can one roughly say, if that and that is the case, keep X km distance?


I experienced several times, that I spotted smoke on the horizon, but couldn't recognize if it's friend or enemy from a distance of more than 10 km. So I had to get closer. As the ship travels at a speed f.e. of 7 kts and eventually moves away from me in some kind, I would run out of batteries before I could recognize the flag, if I would go all the way submerged. So I have to face a surfaced solution to outrun it. And here's the problem. How far away should I stay to not being detected?
There was also a situation, where the enemy saw my attack scope at night at approx. 4 km distance by night. I was going like 6 kts, but hey... 4 km??? It's a damned stick and it was dark... I barely could see the ship's silhouette, so that confused me a bit.


I know of Otto Kretschmer, who even sneaked deck awash into enemy convoys at night and fought them from the inside of the convoy without being spotted. So there must be a rough rule for it.

Would appreciate any info on the distance I've to keep to stay safe of being spotted.

[verganojoda23]

If you can see them, they can see you. Optimal distance before atk dive is 6-7km distance and thats risky already. 7-12 safe zone.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Alfredo
You can run a parallel course with the contact and use your surface speed to get in front of it and then close on it.
As soon as you get the bearing from 'smoke on the horizon' showing in the message box, ask the WO to give you the range.
Go to decks awash after the WO has given you the range.
Plot this on the map and move your boat accordingly.
Depending how your game is set up when you lock the target the maps can show you the true bearing and contacts course.
U-boats sit very low in the water and are quite small compared to merchants so are more difficult to be seen.
Peter

[AlfredoZ]

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

Hi Alfredo
You can run a parallel course with the contact and use your surface speed to get in front of it and then close on it.
As soon as you get the bearing from 'smoke on the horizon' showing in the message box, ask the WO to give you the range.
Go to decks awash after the WO has given you the range.
Plot this on the map and move your boat accordingly.
Depending how your game is set up when you lock the target the maps can show you the true bearing and contacts course.
U-boats sit very low in the water and are quite small compared to merchants so are more difficult to be seen.
Peter

Yeah, thx, that's how I do it now. First I ask the WO for the bearing and approximate range, then I wait a couple of minutes and do it again. So I can draw an approximate course of the target, calculate the speed, outrun and intercept it. But I still don't know, if it's enemy until I spend like 2 hours to find out . My intention was to get a visual on the target to save me the time to outrun and intercept it just for then finding out, it's friendly or neutral. Especially at the beginning of the war there are a lot of nations, who are neutral, so a lot of intercepts without firing a single torpedo.
It's a good prctice though, but did they really do it this way to find out who is who?

[maillemaker]

I'm also running Wolves of Steel.

You can typically easily track a convoy from 10km out and they cannot detect you by visual or radar.

Earlier in the war, say through 1942, when the convoys are lightly escorted with only 4-5 escorts, it is possible to dive in front of a convoy (but slightly to one side, to avoid the lead escort by 2000 meters), go to silent running dead stop, and let the convoy run over you. Then you can shoot from inside the convoy. Especially at night.

Never leave your periscope up - take a quick sighting and get it down again.

After 1942 you had best use steam FAT torpedoes and launch from at least 5000 meters away from the nearest escort column. This gives you 8000 meters to the center of the convoy and enough steam in your torpedoes to make 1 or 2 FAT passes if you miss.

After 1943, when you start getting convoys with 10 or more escorts once you are detected you will almost certainly be killed.

Steve

[Ashikaga]

Be advised that with real navigation on you will not see anything on your map that you do not plot on it yourself. This is also valid for the TAI. You can tick the boxes for show spotted contacts all you like in the map menu but they wont show.

[bstanko6]

Alfredo... yes they did it this way. The prize rules forced Germany to. Most commanders when spotting a ship, during day, submerged right away! No questions asked!

[bstanko6]

CONDITIONS FOR ATTACK per U-boat Commanders Handbook

Favorable conditions
In day time, it is most favorable to attack with the sun behind the boat, and into the eyes of an enemy watch. Making torp bubbles hard to spot at last moment.

Sea state 2 to 3 and wind 3 to 4 are perfect when attacking windward (wind from behind your boat into the target). The causes water to go over your scope from behind, allowing you to see with less water in your lens.

Unfavorable conditions
Sea as smooth as glass. The periscope is very easy to sea in most scenarios.

Heavy swell. As mentioned before, broaching at periscope depth becomes a serious issue. Along with this, undershots and premature detonation becomes more prevalent.
*****
Sh5 models lighting day/night moonlight well. If you add fog, even better! I was able on a dark night no moon pull off a Kretchmer and hit a convoy from inside. Had a freighter less than 500m go by and not see me! Went well until Q ship hit me! On a moonlit night they can see you very easy! Also some ships have veteran status and can see your periscope, while others don’t. Also your profile is important. If you head in to a ship with bow pointing at them you are harder to see. While your broadside is easier to see. Treat all ships as if they can see you as well as you can see them.

[Xander SoS]

Alfredo,
I think SH5 with Wolves has the most exciting surface attacks, thanks to relatively blind enemies. From my experience you can get pretty close on the surface (within 3000m) and even closer running decks-awash (400m-1200), given the right conditions: night and favorable moon placement. In theory, the closer you get to targets, its harder for them to see you as lookouts sit much higher than the uboat conning tower, leaving you entirely under the horizon.
Keep the target between you and the moon. I'm not exactly sure if the moonlight is coded in, but it honestly seems to work for me (and it at least lights up their silhouettes).

For single merchants i get under 500m and sit deck-awash waiting..I try to attack convoys from a further distance with slow torpedoes to get away, but Ive been able to get within 1200m or less of destroyer destroyer screens.

As for them seeing your periscope at that distance at night seems odd: perhaps they heard you? Also, time compressions above 8x seem to increase your detectability when submerged.

Originally Posted by AlfredoZ

Hi,

I play SH5 with WOS mod since a few days (BTW thx to the community for making the game playable). I played SH since the very first edition in the early nineties, but not excessible. When I purchased SH4, I experienced an overheating of my GFX card and my screen went black after several minutes of gameplay, so I stopped playing it. SH5 was bugged so bad, that I gave up after a few days. But now I made another approach on it with Wolves Of Steel and... YES! Finally it's fun!!!

What I wonder about is, if there's some kind of rough estimate for the distance I have to keep from my target to not be seen.
I guess it depends on if I'm surfaced or submerged with periscope, if it's day or night and how fast I'm going. But can one roughly say, if that and that is the case, keep X km distance?


I experienced several times, that I spotted smoke on the horizon, but couldn't recognize if it's friend or enemy from a distance of more than 10 km. So I had to get closer. As the ship travels at a speed f.e. of 7 kts and eventually moves away from me in some kind, I would run out of batteries before I could recognize the flag, if I would go all the way submerged. So I have to face a surfaced solution to outrun it. And here's the problem. How far away should I stay to not being detected?
There was also a situation, where the enemy saw my attack scope at night at approx. 4 km distance by night. I was going like 6 kts, but hey... 4 km??? It's a damned stick and it was dark... I barely could see the ship's silhouette, so that confused me a bit.


I know of Otto Kretschmer, who even sneaked deck awash into enemy convoys at night and fought them from the inside of the convoy without being spotted. So there must be a rough rule for it.

Would appreciate any info on the distance I've to keep to stay safe of being spotted.

[les green01]

depends on the weather if your playing historal or not but weather,speed,moon light plays into it at night with low speed cloudy i have had escorts come within 100 meters of me early war and not spot me tracking the convoy i keep the top of the mast in sight keep a study eye on it cause it might come toward you or away operating the scope keep your speed down and the scope just high enough that waves washes over it every few seconds never stop or go silent unless need too early war if your spotted before firing you screw up,the sub not a sniper but more of a Ranger perfect for ambushes