Decks Awash toot (TEC)

[tohowalk]

I've been playing with this a bit, and I can't get everything to work the way I want.

TMOwtw is my only mod atm.

It seems the game is using the value of "sub/config-snorkel Depth" as the depth to go to when I hit "radar depth". While I can change that depth value and the key combination that activates it, I don't seem to be able to have both snorkel depth and radar depth available - it uses the depth I enter in the sub/config file for snorkel depth. What I think is needed is a separate value in sub/config for both radar depth and snorkel depth (or decks awash, or whatever you call it). That , in turn, would require a new command/cfg entry for decks awash so either one could be used.

Tohowalk

[merc4ulfate]

I still havent figured out why at pressing snorkel depth I get a Radar depth message.

[Sniper297]

It is my considered opinion that it beats the hell out of me. I never looked into a separate radar depth, since the radar activates at 39 feet I can just order 35 feet and they'll go to 35 and hold that with no problem. It's only when I order depths around 25-28 feet that the swabs get attention deficit disorder so the decks awash mod using the snorkel depth is the only thing that consistently works for me.

One thing to try is de-activate all mods and run just the decks awash hack, see if it still says radar depth instead of snorkel depth. It could be a 1.5 thing, or if it's specific to one mod we can narrow down the investigation to only the files included with that mod.

[merc4ulfate]

When I emptied the mods I tried that idea. It still says radar depth without any mods but I can not find a single place in the cfg files concerning radar depth. It just isnt there.

I have a feeling that somewhere in the hard code maybe the american side is linked to a vocal que for radar depth and on the german side linked to snorkel depth.

I also noticed that the mods have to be disabled then modified and then re added before they take proper effect. If I leave the mods activate nothing seems to change after the file has been altered.

The sound file for Radar Depth must be named something other than what it is. I searched the entire sub structure of all files and mods and I can not find a single reference to a sound file for Radar Depth. There is one for snorkel depth but not Radar even though during game play you do have the sound "Radar Depth"

I have continued my testing and I now have achieved a 27 foot decks awash.

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.7;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=76.2;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Using 8.7 meters with only version 1.5 and only TMO as a mod this will give you a 27 foot decks awash. Any speed above 2/3 will decrease your depth by 1 foot. So Flank at Decks Awash will have you sitting at 26 feet submerged. Sitting at 27 looks really nice. I found that using 8.5 had me sitting to far up out of the water. I will begin to add the mods I have in my list and report any changes. I am expecting one with ISP 2.6 but I am going to adjust that file to reflect 8.7 before I load it.

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Added testing notes.

Running this list alone:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1

And having the original game file as well as TMO in the Gato.CFG altered to reflect this setting:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.7;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=76.2;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet and 11 knots if your speed is set to flank.

If you add ISP 2.6 And your Gato.CFG file is as follows:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.38;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet but will only have a maximum speed of 8 knots for any engine setting above 2/3. There is no increase in speed above 2/3 settings

I am trying to determine why ISP limits the Decks Awash speed to only 8 knots for any setting above 2/3.

BELOW are the differences of the two files I have not posted the entire file since all other information in it is the same for both.


TMO for GATO.CFG

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.8;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=45.75;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.25
AheadOneThird=0.50
AheadStandard=0.75
AheadFull=0.90
AheadFlank=1.00
BackSlow=-0.26
BackStandard=-0.40
BackFull=-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.66

==========================

ISP GATO.CFG

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18.3;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.38;meters
CrashDepth=50.29;meters
MaxDepth=91.44;meters
SurfaceDepth=7.62;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=61;meters
StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.46
AheadOneThird=0.68
AheadStandard=0.82
AheadFull=0.91
AheadFlank=1.00
BackSlow=-0.30
BackStandard=-0.45
BackFull=-0.60
BackEmergency=-0.67



I am hoping TOPRX can help shed some light on this for me so we can get a consistent speed out of decks awash no matter which of the mods are running.

27 feet for decks awash is an awfully good thing.

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NEW UPDATE:

I have discovered a small mod I ran called #3 Submarines Splash Sound which was part of the Enviroment 5 mod does something to change the submarine boats physics or something and will not allow Decks Awash. This file modifies the Gato.SIM as well as GATO.DAT files in some way that I do not understand as yet. If ISP has altered the DAT or SIM files from the GATO this might be why the reduced speed for decks awash over TMO and RSRD without ISP. I'll have to wait for TORPX to enlighten me on it. I have never adjusted any DAT or SIM files as yet. Modding is pretty new to me.

[Sniper297]

Speed will be reduced by decks awash simply because the deeper the hull in the water the more drag there is. More drag = more thrust needed to maintain same speed, also less speed at max thrust. It's still a good compromise for sneaking in harbors though, lower profile for less chance of detection combined with faster speed than submerged without discharging batteries.

I tinkered with this a bit last night, in the command.cfg file,

[Cmd68]
Name=Toggle_radar_view
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x78,,"F9"
;Key0=0x52,,"R"

Again the ";" at the beginning of a line tells the program "this is a comment do not process this line." So in stock SH4 the R key is not used at all.

With that in mind I added a datablock at the bottom;

[Cmd567]
Name=Radar_depth
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x52,C,"R"

Then changed the numbers at the top to increment;

CommandsNb=601
MaxKeyCommandsNb=171

After that did the NSS_Sargo.cfg thusly;

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=18;meters
SnorkelDepth=8.85;meters
RadarDepth=10.6;meters
CrashDepth=40;meters
MaxDepth=100;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.0;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=99;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

No joy in mudville, pressing the R key in game does zip point diddly squat. Not a serious problem for me, again my SOP is to listen around the sonar dial, make a 90 degree turn to check the dead zone, then up to periscope depth for a 360 sweep. No visible targets I order 35 feet, fire up the SJ radar and sweep that a few times, then "snorkel depth" (decks awash) for a few minutes while continuing the radar sweep before blowing the ballast to surface all the way. For some reason any depth from 30 feet on down is no problem for the planesmen, it's just depths between 20 and 30 feet they can't hit and hold even when you offer them rum.

[merc4ulfate]

It would have been a great feature to have independent dive plane operation (bow and stern) and control over the several ballast tanks. I would have added independent control over the two screws as well.

=================

The odd thing is ... where am I getting Radar Depth messages? Why is it that pressing Snorkel Depth I get a radar message? I recall somewhere that TMO had a Radar Depth in it so that if you hit R you went to radar depth but you had to activate it manually I think.

Well doesnt this answer it all for me?

TMO AND RADAR DEPTH

TMO Radar Depth is ";" but you can manually change it to "R". The vocal message is tied to the key stroke so it is always RADAR DEPTH. I have not figured out where to change that yet.

Rockin Robbins ROCKS

[TorpX]

Ok, the internet just ate my post, so this is going to be the short version.

You will run Decks Awash at 27 feet but will only have a maximum speed of 8 knots for any engine setting above 2/3. There is no increase in speed above 2/3 settings

I am trying to determine why ISP limits the Decks Awash speed to only 8 knots for any setting above 2/3.

First, try going to GQ. The engine room compartment Ef is important here. Having better crew should help some.

If you are deep enough to fully submerge your hull, you are essentially a submerged submarine. The only advantage you retain, propulsion wise, is being able to run the diesels. If you are too deep to do that, you might as well be fully submerged.

Your exact speed will likely depend on your exact depth, and crew Ef. Don't expect much better than your max. submerged speed, if your hull is under.

I am hoping TOPRX can help shed some light on this for me so we can get a consistent speed out of decks awash no matter which of the mods are running.

??

You can't expect the same results with ISP as with other mods, as it changes propulsion at a basic level. Otherwise, there would be little point in using it.

[merc4ulfate]

Thank you TOPRX.

I was hoping to find a solution that would allow Decks Awash to run at 11 knots like it does with TMO. I found it odd that any speed setting above 2/3 would not change the speed by even one knot.

Decks awash at Flank using Diesels even considering your hull is underwater would be faster than at 2/3.

When I was looking at the maximum submerged speed both TMO and ISP were set to 8 but TMO will go to eleven at 27 feet and ISP only 8. ISP has greater speed per setting ie. TMO Ahead Standard 0.75 and ISP 0.82 and I thought this also would have contributed to a greater speed per setting even at decks awash.

I am curious where to find the "basic level" that you spoke of when dealing with propulsion? I am not much when it come to modding but I would mind having a look at it.

[TorpX]

You didn't say whether you tried GQ, or what you crew Ef was while you were doing 8 kn. ..??

Were seas calm?

[Sniper297]

Difference between TMO and ISP is probably the NSS_(SubType).sim file, specifically

11. unit_Submarine

If you look in there under propulsion and E_propulsion you'll see the max surface speed (using Gato as example) set to 21, max submerged speed is 9. Decks awash max speed will depend on depth (in one I note you have it at 8.7, the other at 8.38, shallower is faster) and both max speed settings. One "supersargo" I play with occasionally has surface max 26 knots, submerged 10 knots, that gives me 15 knots at decks awash flank speed. In other words the max speed at decks awash is a percentage of the max speeds in the sim file, probably the median between the two although I haven't run any tests to confirm that theory.

TorpX, one thing I've always wondered about;

StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

I note in his the number is changed;

StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

What exactly does that affect?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

TorpX, one thing I've always wondered about;

StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

I note in his the number is changed;

StormConditions=7,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

What exactly does that affect?

I think it mainly is a matter of the crew putting on their foul weather gear; beyond that, I'm not sure. I don't know if it prevents use of deck gun. I never try to use it if seas are rough.

***

I did a quick test of the Gato with decks awash (using ISP, of course).

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I wanted to try several depths, but the game boat doesn't want to settle on any depth between 22 and 28 ft. There are obviously a lot of mechanics coded in the game that we can't reach.

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Anyway, at 22 ft., I was able to reach 10.0 knots, at crew Efficiency of 100 (8.2 kn. at ~ 75). This was in a very calm sea. The deck is not actually awash; maybe 2 ft. is above water.

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At 28 ft., 7.8 kn., and a maximum of 9.2 kn. @ Ef 100. The deck is fully submerged, and crew is below. I don't see this as being very practical, but maybe you can get by with this. This is really deeper than I wanted.

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Fully surfaced, at 17 ft., I reached 21.5 kn. @ Ef 100, or 19.5 kn. @ Ef 67.

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To double check, I went back to 22 ft. and reached 9.8 kn. @ Ef 100.

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For whatever reason, at 'decks awash' max. speed didn't seem to change from standard to flank; at least not that I could tell. Perhaps the drag just makes the increase too small to observe.

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I wanted to try 24 or 25 ft., but the crew doesn't cooperate. In any case, I consider the above results reasonable.

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If anyone is having trouble getting good speed at decks awash check these things:

With ISP, you must have the crew efficiency at 100, or at least high. Ordinarily, this means going to GQ.

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What is your exact depth? The deeper you are, the slower you go.

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Make sure you are not charging batteries.

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Sea-state is still a factor, though you will probably not loose too much speed, since you are mostly submerged already.

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I agree with Sniper about the way the game handles the matter. It looks at the max. surface speed, the max. submerged speed, and your present depth to calculate the instantaneous drag. You do not have to be fully submerged to be slowed. [This is easily seen when we dive; we start slowing down long before the boat is fully submerged.] Whether this is a simple linear interpolation, or something more complicated, I don't know. I don't believe the game takes any factors, like the bow wave into account.

[Sniper297]

"I wanted to try 24 or 25 ft., but the crew doesn't cooperate"

Hence the need for the hack, the mutinous dogs won't hold any depth less than 30 feet consistently without the snorkel depth setting.

I was wondering about the storm conditions setting because I thought it might affect the automatic shutoff of the SJ radar (and again the scurvy lubbers don't have the sense to automatically turn the blasted thing back on!) but it's difficult to test since waves high enough to shut down the SJ are so random.

[merc4ulfate]

In my test I use the same mission, calm seas and it doesn't matter if we are at GQ or not the speed will never increase about 8 knots even setting the max speed in the file to 20.

I'm ok with it really but I would have liked to have had it at 11 like in TMO. 11 seems plausible to me with decks awash to 27 feet and all ahead 2/3.

Been reading patrol reports and I think the game seriously over estimates the number of depth charges held on a DD. The Tunny reported that a MOMO only held 10?

[Sniper297]

Limited number on the racks/launchers but the total number carried for reloading could be almost anything.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/D/e/Depth_Charge.htm

Specific sentence;

"The typical loadout on a fleet destroyer was about 30 depth charges, while dedicated escort ships had a very large loadout, of as many as 300 depth charges."

No data I can find on how long it took to drag the extras up from the magazines or prep them for firing/dropping. My problem with the whole thing is it's too easy in any depth over 300 feet, the thermal layer acts like a Klingon cloaking device. Fire all tubes, dive 60 feet below the layer, slow to 2 knots, go five miles in any direction except the original convoy/task force course before coming back to periscope depth. Don't even need to go to silent running, once I'm under the layer they can't find me at all. I tried adjusting that at one time but the layer seems to be completely digital, either 100% effective or zero percent.

[YonMaruIchi]

Off topic but I'm sure the Momo's age had something to do with it. Hell those things are even older than Minekaze. Why put dozens of depth charges on such an outdated destroyer? I'm surprised it had any. Particularly since Fubuki was such a huge step forward in destroyer quality being the first modern destroyers in the world and consequent designs being mass produced, I don't think anything before Mutsuki was really intended to see much action at the time. Find out if anything made after 1920 had so few depth charges that hadn't recently attacked another sub. Momo is a terrible example destroyer, probably the worst you can use

According to wiki by WWII that ship was the only ship of its class to actually still be used in WWII and wasn't even classed as a destroyer, but an auxiliary escort, and was barely even ocean-going, just an unnamed coastal patrol boat.