books on submarine tactics

[Linton]

Thank you Bill.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

I would start with Submarine Command by Ben Bryant.I believe it was required reading on the perisher course in the 1970s.I would also read a lot of the wartime (ww2) books by people such as Mars,Young etc....

Do you have some more info about these books, Cornwallis? I mean prices, availability....?

[Linton]

Abraham I get most of mine from abebooks.com.I will produce a list of reading for you in the next couple of days.

[Driftwood]

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

I would start with Submarine Command by Ben Bryant.I believe it was required reading on the perisher course in the 1970s.I would also read a lot of the wartime (ww2) books by people such as Mars,Young etc.The basic techniques are always the same.Technology just gives you a better chance of hitting something and avoiding the counter -attack.This only really sunk (!) in with me when I went on three submarines from different eras and realised that apart from the propulsion system that they are not really different.It is the captain and luck that make the difference.I once asked an air-traffic controller at a major UK airport if they had a tactics manual.His reply was no-he just made it up on the day with the benefit of his experience.Submarine combat is the same
You will not find much on Nato tactics but you can try Milan Vego's book on Soviet Naval Tactics.Finally just get all the regular forum posters to pm you with their favourite tactic and you are probably onto a winner and pm me the final result!!

Just ordered your recommendation, and the title is actually Submarine Commander by Ben Bryant. I would also recommend Thunder Below by Admiral Eugene Fluckey. He was a pioneer in changing US WWII submarine combat tactics although some of them (surface approaches) are not really applicable now. The thing that I really see lacking in these historical accounts are sub vs. sub tactics.

[Driftwood]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Do you have some more info about these books, Cornwallis? I mean prices, availability....?

www.Amazon.com

[Kapitan]

Thanks guys.

[Linton]

Driftwood ,how many submarines do you think have been sunk by another submarine when both were submerged? ONE, right at the end of WW2 a german u-boat that was being very noisy and obvious was dispatched by an RN submarine.the technology was just not there during most of the war to do the job.

[Driftwood]

Originally Posted by Cornwallis

Driftwood ,how many submarines do you think have been sunk by another submarine when both were submerged? ONE, right at the end of WW2 a german u-boat that was being very noisy and obvious was dispatched by an RN submarine.the technology was just not there during most of the war to do the job.

I completely agree. I was merely making the observation that historical accounts that discuss tactics, albeit very good, do not address what modern submarine tactics are because they didn't have the technology during the 1st and 2nd WW's. It's a shame (but understandable) that there doesn't seem to be anything out there for us virtual sub skippers to use as a tactical reference. Of course there are the manuals developed by the various virtual fleets which are great resources but nothing "official"......at least for public consumption.
Might be nice to have the reading lists for the PCO and Perisher courses.

P.S. I'm really enjoying Admiral Bryants book Submarine Commander! Nice getting a British perspective of WWII submarine operations.

[Kapitan]

I know a guy who was an officer on a british submarine (both diesel and nuclear left the service in 1996) he will not even talk to me about the subject nor hint at it in anyway, every time i talk to him he has a nack of taking it off on a tangent.

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

I know a guy who was an officer on a british submarine (both diesel and nuclear left the service in 1996) he will not even talk to me about the subject nor hint at it in anyway, every time i talk to him he has a nack of taking it off on a tangent.

I know people who are like that naturally . . . .


BTW, love that 'Captain Spam' avatar! :rotfl:

[Kapitan]

Well expected, and thanks i like it too.

[Driftwood]

Here's two more for the list. "Wahoo" (which I've just finished) and "Clear the Bridge" (about half way through) both by RADM Richard O'Kane. Excellent primers (IMHO) on WWII fleet boat tactics. A very interesting part about the first book (Wahoo) was seeing the difference between how a peace time sub skipper and the newer, younger war time skippers conned their boats. I highly recommend these to anyone interested in US submarine exploits during WWII. If you can I suggest reading Wahoo first as that's where O'Kane begins his own story as XO of the Wahoo, moving on to take command of the Tang in "Clear the Bridge."

[Abraham]

@ Driftwood:
You're right, both are top notch books that give a lot of info on sub tactics, besides being good reading.

[Linton]

I am currently reading"The Royal Navy and Anti-submarine Warfare1917-49" by Malcolm Llewellyn-Jones.It is expensive £65!,so i would suggest getting it out of the library.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Linton

I am currently reading"The Royal Navy and Anti-submarine Warfare1917-49" by Malcolm Llewellyn-Jones.It is expensive £65!,so i would suggest getting it out of the library.

Is it worthwhile, Chief? Does it give some solid info?