US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ If someone catches the bubonic plague, infects others and some deniers will not let themselves be vaccined because FREEDOM or whatever, and rather let others and themselves die, i'd say fence them in and wait. It will regulate itself via Darwin. Freedom ends when you kill others.

The problem with your argument there is no vaccine for Bubonic Plague it’s currently treated with antibiotics. Also the transmission is not from human to human it’s between animal namely rat fleas and human

regardless of those facts I suppose I’d still get called a denier and fenced in

There were many prominent and qualified people who questioned the last vaccine too. And instead of discussion, instead of people being able to rely on their own doctors advice. They got the party line and very unscientific medical advice of fanboy bandwagon opinions ignored and called deniers and threatened with denial of medical care if they didn’t follow the party line to get juiced up with the party approved experimental drugs.

Whether you got the vaccine or not that decision only affected you and no one else.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Whether you got the vaccine or not that decision only affected you and no one else.

Wrong.
And this has nothing to do with any "party" line, but with reason.
If vaccinated you will infect less others or even none, which is what i am talking about. The less carriers there are, the less infections will take place, meaning the virus is not able to increase its numbers, lowering the overall viral pressure on the population.

A lot of diseases and viruses have been dealt with in a way that they mean no harm to humans anymore, often by mass vaccinations.
Viruses do not "die out" entirely, but with only few hosts to multiply (=low viral pressure) the risk of infection is almost nil.

If you still catch the virus after a vaccination, symptoms will be less grave or even non-existent, with the usual few exceptions. Side effects (that have never been swept under the carpet) usually indicate that the vaccine works.

Low probability of long-term side effects after coronavirus vaccination

No vaccine ever had or has has a 100 percent probability or guarantee of helping everyone of course. If your immunosystem has already problems from other causes, like Guillain-Barrée or MS or else it will be wise to ask a doctor first.

OT re bubonic plague
Regarding fleas and rats and humans they are probably related close enough
"In the U.S., there is currently no bubonic plague vaccine.
In other locations, a vaccine is available [only] to people who have a high exposure to the plague because of their jobs."
Probably not worth the production when there is no plague and it can be cured with antibiotics alone. If diagnosed early enough.
Do you oppose taking antibiotics, too, and why?

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

No vaccine ever had or has has a 100 percent probability or guarantee of helping everyone of course.

Except that those experimental covid vaccines don't really help much at all from what I can see. They don't stop transmission of the disease, they don't prevent sickness or death and in spite of active political suppression there is a growing body of medical evidence that their side effects have hurt or killed those they were supposedly meant to save.



On another note why do Germans always advocate rounding up innocent people and putting them into cages? Are Concentration Camps something that is built into your national psyche?

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

Except that those experimental covid vaccines don't really help much at all from what I can see. They don't stop transmission of the disease, they don't prevent sickness or death [...]

Evidence says otherwise. "Experimental", well any new vaccine is "experimental". They mostly prevent from getting sick by the virus, and also from transferring. If you get infected you will mostly develop more harmless symptoms, if at all.
There are a few outliers being blown up by populist media, believe it if you want.

[...] and in spite of active political suppression there is a growing body of medical evidence that their side effects have hurt or killed those they were supposedly meant to save.

"politic suppression", "a growing body of medical evidence", really?"
I give a rat's anus for political opinions when it comes to science.
So you speak of evidence where? Plausible and fact-checked, please, and with a statistical impact of significance.

On another note why do Germans always advocate rounding up innocent people and putting them into cages? Are Concentration Camps something that is built into your national psyche?

Ah so the poor innocent people who deny science and get sick want to be free and spread the disease.
Godwin's law and the nazis again, sorry no. Ever heard of a word named quarantine?

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Ah so the poor innocent people who deny science and get sick want to be free and spread the disease.
Godwin's law and the nazis again, sorry no. Ever heard of a word named quarantine?

It wasn't a mere quarantine you were advocating when you said "fence them in and wait" and I don't want to hear that crap about godwins law. You toss the nazi label around quite freely and your recommended final solution to those who reject your drugs is so much like the methods of your forefathers as to justify the comparison.


"Spritze Macht Frei" should be your logo.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

. Ever heard of a word named quarantine?

The question that immediately arises is what else would you allow your government to "quarantine" your fellow citizens for? And who would get to decide who and why? One can easily see how that kind of power could be abused in the name of 'public safety'. Can you or anyone else guarantee that it won't happen?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Wrong.

Really. Are you telling me you still believe in the party line the vaccine will prevent you from getting infected? Vaccinated or not you can still get infected and still pass on the virus, ANY virus, to another human being. We have also found that healthy humans especially the young faired well against the COVID virus and acquired a natural immunity. But lock them up, fire them, deny them health care too until they get vaccinated was a based solely on a headline, a political narrative.

And this has nothing to do with any "party" line, but with reason.
If vaccinated you will infect less others or even none, which is what i am talking about. The less carriers there are, the less infections will take place, meaning the virus is not able to increase its numbers, lowering the overall viral pressure on the population.

A lot of diseases and viruses have been dealt with in a way that they mean no harm to humans anymore, often by mass vaccinations.
Viruses do not "die out" entirely, but with only few hosts to multiply (=low viral pressure) the risk of infection is almost nil.

You’ e been lead astray if you still think that. I said before I’ll say it again. This kind doesn’t ever die out they mutate too fast to keep up with. And COVID is no different it has mutated into a nothing burger just as those medical professionals who were called deniers said it would.

On other hand Polio and other like viruses which are pretty stable can be reduced by vaccine.

If you still catch the virus after a vaccination, symptoms will be less grave or even non-existent, with the usual few exceptions. Side effects (that have never been swept under the carpet) usually indicate that the vaccine works.

. SEE ABOVE. Your decision to vaccinate or not too vaccinate especially against flu affect you and you alone.

When I got my first COVOD vaccine I had a severe reaction. The mandate Nazis told me it’s because I must have been infected before. Still I refused the second shot because it affected the entire left side of my body and heart health. Come to find out later it was most likely administered incorrectly and injected into my blood stream. Damn good thing I didn’t listen to the mandate Nazis.

No vaccine ever had or has has a 100 percent probability or guarantee of helping everyone of course. If your immunosystem has already problems from other causes, like Guillain-Barrée or MS or else it will be wise to ask a doctor first.

OT re bubonic plague
Regarding fleas and rats and humans they are probably related close enough
"In the U.S., there is currently no bubonic plague vaccine.
In other locations, a vaccine is available [only] to people who have a high exposure to the plague because of their jobs."
Probably not worth the production when there is no plague and it can be cured with antibiotics alone. If diagnosed early enough.
Do you oppose taking antibiotics, too, and why?

BUBONIC PLAGUE once understood was reigned in not by a vaccine but by preventative measures such as pest control and knowledge. It still happens but so rare people die mostly because it is mis-diagnosed or not thought of as a cause.

What bothers me is with all the information available from real honest goodness scientists, virologist and medical professionals. The only thing the usual suspects could think to do was to start rounding people up in camps, and punish them by denying them health care, and their livelihood if they don’t follow the fear. That’s not reason.

[Rockstar]

Democrats Honestly you couldn’t make this up if you tried

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/stat...96491383181318

George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
Crazy thought, but those 20 million AR-15s now in this country could sure arm a lot of Ukrainians.
10:17 PM · Jun 6, 2022·Twitter for iPhone


Jun 6
Replying to
@GeorgeTakei
Nice to finally see you understand purpose of 2nd amendment defend from foreign invaders.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Democrats Honestly you couldn’t make this up if you tried

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/stat...96491383181318

George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
Crazy thought, but those 20 million AR-15s now in this country could sure arm a lot of Ukrainians.
10:17 PM · Jun 6, 2022·Twitter for iPhone


Jun 6
Replying to
@GeorgeTakei
Nice to finally see you understand purpose of 2nd amendment defend from foreign invaders.

Pretty funny!

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Democrats Honestly you couldn’t make this up if you tried


Jun 6
Replying to
@GeorgeTakei
Nice to finally see you understand purpose of 2nd amendment defend from foreign invaders.

...or domestic enemies.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by em2nought

...or domestic enemies.

Riiiight that does seem to be the current narrative these days doesn’t it? Let’s create a national police force because, you know, boogie man.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Really. Are you telling me you still believe in the party line the vaccine will prevent you from getting infected?

"Party line" again, nope.
You still can get infected but most will either show no symptoms or much less than the non-vaccinated. Also the interval of being able to infect others is reduced.

Vaccinated or not you can still get infected and still pass on the virus, ANY virus, to another human being.

GF'nDam no one denies this, but there are less people passing it on, so decreasing the viral pressure and its chances to multiply.

WTF has this to do with "politics". You can drink your hydroxychloroquine or whateverthisis and it will only affect you alright.
I am not aware that there is a law forcing you to get vaccinated?

This kind doesn’t ever die out they mutate too fast to keep up with. And COVID is no different it has mutated into a nothing burger just as those medical professionals who were called deniers said it would.

I wrote it does not "die out". It can mutate into a lot of new forms, harmless variants if lucky. The omicron variant alone has three new strains, numbers are going up again because of a general "relaxation", but it is not yet clear if those or all future mutating forms will be harmless.

On other hand Polio and other like viruses which are pretty stable can be reduced by vaccine.

Right. And?

When I got my first COVOD vaccine I had a severe reaction. The mandate Nazis told me it’s because I must have been infected before. Still I refused the second shot because it affected the entire left side of my body and heart health. Come to find out later it was most likely administered incorrectly and injected into my blood stream. Damn good thing I didn’t listen to the mandate Nazis.

So you blame incorrect appliance on the vaccine?

What bothers me is with all the information available from real honest goodness scientists, virologist and medical professionals. The only thing the usual suspects could think to do was to start rounding people up in camps, and punish them by denying them health care, and their livelihood if they don’t follow the fear. That’s not reason.

So a cruise ship's passengers and crew are infected with whatever. What do you propose?

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

The question that immediately arises is what else would you allow your government to "quarantine" your fellow citizens for? And who would get to decide who and why? One can easily see how that kind of power could be abused in the name of 'public safety'. Can you or anyone else guarantee that it won't happen?

What else? Isn't it enough to propose some self-quarantining as long as the test is positive? Do you run around and meet friends when you have the flu?
Is there anyone who has seriously proposed to incarcerate infected people?
What about isolation of infectious cases in a clinic, isn't that reasonable?

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Riiiight that does seem to be the current narrative these days doesn’t it? Let’s create a national police force because, you know, boogie man.

The fellows wanting to create that post Jan 6th force are the domestic enemies I'm talking about.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

What else? Isn't it enough to propose some self-quarantining as long as the test is positive? Do you run around and meet friends when you have the flu?
Is there anyone who has seriously proposed to incarcerate infected people?
What about isolation of infectious cases in a clinic, isn't that reasonable?

Self-quarantine yes. I have self quarantined four times in the last two years. I've had Covid and I am triple vaxed. There is a difference between that and the punitive mask, vax and shutdown the economy rules that have been imposed. Again I'll ask the question .. how far would you let it go before you say that is enough? Here in Canada we have seen this government over reach and it is ugly. People who simply donated money to anti vax protesters had their bank accounts frozen. That same government imposed the Emergency Measures Act, some thing that is only supposed to be used in a time of war to shut down that protest. I don't know about you but I definitely think that is a line that should not have been crossed. Covid is a perfect opportunity for the authoritarian bent in some countries to rear it's ugly head. It's a brave new world.