Gunman kills 19 children, 2 adults in Texas grade school

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

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Almost all Western countries.

Then why is this a US-only problem and not a problem of the nations with very few armed citizens? And as far as I remember there have been several school shootings in which the "coward" knew perfectly well that there could and would be armed resistance, yet he still went on. I even remember one shooting in which the perpetrator wore some kind of armor (have to look up which shooting it was).


The main point remains: between 2009 and 2018 the US had 288 school shootings. The other G7 nations had 5 (five) combined, and these six nations have a combined population of 435 million people, about one third more than the US.

I hardly think all western countries provide assistance after disasters and certainly not at the levels the U.S does. If you are saying otherwise, then please provide the resources from a reputable information clearing house so that your sources can be checked and verified. Just out of curiosity, where do you live ? I think we would all like to know that. If not the U.S, then where are you getting your information ?

With regards to the shootings and the armed coward knowing there would be resistance, how can you possibly know what someone else ( the shooter ) was thinking ? This is a ridiculous statement and a fantasy on your part. Again, if you think you are right, please provide some documentation to the contrary that you know exactly what the shooters in these events were thinking. I also noticed that you highlighted coward in your post so as to say this armed individual wasn't a coward to target innocent children. Can you clarify what that means or meant ?


While you are on the subject, I think we would all be interested in your solutions as well.

[MaDef]

The main point remains: between 2009 and 2018 the US had 288 school shootings. The other G7 nations had 5 (five) combined, and these six nations have a combined population of 435 million people, about one third more than the US.

Your data is skewed period.

[mapuc]

I was terrible wrong by accusing every American and for that I'm so sorry.

Heck we have daily shooting here in Denmark and Sweden as well. But here it is gang related shootings. There is also a lot of stabbing especially here in Denmark. Mass Shooting is rare last time was, in Norway some decades ago.

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I was terrible wrong by accusing every American and for that I'm so sorry.

Heck we have daily shooting here in Denmark and Sweden as well. But here it is gang related shootings. There is also a lot of stabbing especially here in Denmark. Mass Shooting is rare last time was, in Norway some decades ago.

Markus

Relax Markus. It's all good. As I had mentioned, because you live in Denmark, The only contact you have with the U.S is here and through various media outlets. Those media outlets can be slanted, biased or be pursuing a hidden agenda.


Right now, It's more important to try to put safe guards In place for our most vulnerable citizens and children.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Your data is skewed period.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

19 Countries with the Most School Shootings (total incidents Jan 2009-May 2018 - CNN):

• United States — 288
• Mexico — 8
• South Africa — 6
• India — 5
• Nigeria & Pakistan — 4
• Afghanistan — 3
• Brazil, Canada, France — 2
• Azerbaijan, China, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Kenya, Russia, & Turkey — 1

In brief: The US has had over 6 times more school schootings then the next 18 countries together.

[mapuc]

Heard in our news
House passes gun bill doomed to fail in the Senate.

Didn't get what the bill consist of-I got that minimum age will be changed from 18 to 21. and some more regulations.

Is it the content in this bill that will make some Senators voting against it or does these Senators per automatic vote against every thing who are coming from Dem or Rep. ?

Markus

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I hardly think all western countries provide assistance after disasters and certainly not at the levels the U.S does. If you are saying otherwise, then please provide the resources from a reputable information clearing house so that your sources can be checked and verified. Just out of curiosity, where do you live ? I think we would all like to know that. If not the U.S, then where are you getting your information ?

I am German and live in Germany, but I have lived in Northern Ireland during the final years of The Troubles and the early phase after the Good Friday Agreement.

From the German perspective: the "Technisches Hilfswerk" (literally technical help service), a federal service, has served in all major crises in the last 30 years world wide. That's just one of the many services and organisations that have provided assistance internationally. Medical and social assistance in a broad variety has been provided by Organisations like the Red Cross, the Johanniter (Order of St. John), Malteser International and may others. German volunteer firefighters have taken time of their jobs to help in other contries, most recently in Ukraine.

A similar list can be put up for any Western European nation.

American help is all good and well, but there's no basis to the claim that only the Americans are the good samaritans and no one else is.

With regards to the shootings and the armed coward knowing there would be resistance, how can you possibly know what someone else ( the shooter ) was thinking ?

How can you?

And there's far more that must be attributed to a person than just cowardice. Many people are cowardish, many people are afraid for a wide variety of reasons, and the overwhelming majority of those would never even think of running into a school and gunning down whoever comes across. You could have used "video game player" instead of coward, and it would have been equally misleading and incomplete.

While you are on the subject, I think we would all be interested in your solutions as well.

Solutions? If I knew the solution I'd be filthy rich in no time. A complex problem requires a complex solution. A major overhaul of the society would help, but there's no need to tell me that's basically impossible - I know.

Limiting access to guns in a certain way (age? more rigid and more consequential background checks?) would definitely help and is possible without a prohibition and the realization of the American angst "they want to take my gun!". To my knowledge there's a vast majority of Americans who would support a limitation to access, even among the hardcore gun owners.
A limitation will not be the long term solution, but would definitely give relief and will save children's lives.

Not electing politicians who do nothing but incite hatred among people might also help a lot, but I'm brutally honest here: your political system is *********d.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Heard in our news
House passes gun bill doomed to fail in the Senate.

Didn't get what the bill consist of-I got that minimum age will be changed from 18 to 21. and some more regulations.

Is it the content in this bill that will make some Senators voting against it or does these Senators per automatic vote against every thing who are coming from Dem or Rep. ?

Markus

It is some of both actually. Partisan House bill with unacceptable provisions will get a partisan rejection in the senate. At least that is the theory.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

[I]In brief: The US has had over 6 times more school schootings then the next 18 countries together.

Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

I am German and live in Germany, but I have lived in Northern Ireland during the final years of The Troubles and the early phase after the Good Friday Agreement.

From the German perspective: the "Technisches Hilfswerk" (literally technical help service), a federal service, has served in all major crises in the last 30 years world wide. That's just one of the many services and organisations that have provided assistance internationally. Medical and social assistance in a broad variety has been provided by Organisations like the Red Cross, the Johanniter (Order of St. John), Malteser International and may others. German volunteer firefighters have taken time of their jobs to help in other contries, most recently in Ukraine.

A similar list can be put up for any Western European nation.

American help is all good and well, but there's no basis to the claim that only the Americans are the good samaritans and no one else is.


How can you?

And there's far more that must be attributed to a person than just cowardice. Many people are cowardish, many people are afraid for a wide variety of reasons, and the overwhelming majority of those would never even think of running into a school and gunning down whoever comes across. You could have used "video game player" instead of coward, and it would have been equally misleading and incomplete.


Solutions? If I knew the solution I'd be filthy rich in no time. A complex problem requires a complex solution. A major overhaul of the society would help, but there's no need to tell me that's basically impossible - I know.

Limiting access to guns in a certain way (age? more rigid and more consequential background checks?) would definitely help and is possible without a prohibition and the realization of the American angst "they want to take my gun!". To my knowledge there's a vast majority of Americans who would support a limitation to access, even among the hardcore gun owners.
A limitation will not be the long term solution, but would definitely give relief and will save children's lives.

Not electing politicians who do nothing but incite hatred among people might also help a lot, but I'm brutally honest here: your political system is *********d.

I never said that only the U.S is good and provides everything and no one else does. I did say that the U.S goes to extraordinary lengths including providing man power to help alleviate the effects of natural disasters and the like. If you had read my previous post, you would know that I said that it is usually the U.S who is among the first to respond, not the only country. I suggest you re-read my post. The aid I mentioned was within the context that the U.S does care about human life. It wasn't about who does what and how much. Again, this is your narrative and not what I said.

You have contradicted yourself. You said the active shooter or coward knew perfectly well that there could and would be armed resistance, yet he still went on. Then you say, how could you know that ? That's exactly my point. You don't know anything at all about this shooting except what you read. You don't have a clue. In for an American court of law, you should expect to be admonished by a judge for stating what you think or what you believe in a court proceeding. It's what you can prove and demonstrate.

Further, anyone who guns down an innocent child is far worse than a coward. I couldn't care less what you choose to call them.

However, with regards to your “ solutions , I do see some merit to them and what you have stated. To be fair and honest, I have been interested in how Germany and the U.K and other countries deal with things. I have no idea how well they would translate to American society or if certain aspects could be viably incorporated and implemented into the U.S. Anyone involved in the legal system knows that the U.S courts and courts in the U.K routinely cite each others cases are part of case law to establish precedents ( stare decisis )

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.

Sure. And bullets are not round, teens do not think about sex, and things are not meant to be.

The Gun Violence Archive gets quoted with saying that in 2019 alone, by your widened definition of all mass shooting events (by Congress definition with 3 or more kills excluding the perpetrator or 4 kills including the perpetrator), may it be due to drugs, gangs or amok runs, there were 419 such events. In one year.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Like I said your data is skewed. 98% of those 288 "School Shootings" are gang or drug related.

So? Does that mean they didn't happen?

[MaDef]

No, but it is disingenuous to try and make them comparable to the shooting in Texas.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by MaDef

No, but it is disingenuous to try and make them comparable to the shooting in Texas.

That's true, but the potential for incidental deaths makes them little less of a threat to someone's child and no less part of the whole problem. I own guns I would like to keep (all of them better than 75 years old) so I'm not anti gun, but the toll is getting ridiculous. I'm pissed the Democratic House passed a bill they all know will fail instead of passing something that would have a chance of addressing part of the problem and pass. Yes, I know, still...

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

That's true, but the potential for incidental deaths makes them little less of a threat to someone's child and no less part of the whole problem. I own guns I would like to keep (all of them better than 75 years old) so I'm not anti gun, but the toll is getting ridiculous. I'm pissed the Democratic House passed a bill they all know will fail instead of passing something that would have a chance of addressing part of the problem and pass. Yes, I know, still...

I’ll also add there isn’t anything that can’t be handled at the State level.