LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod - Page 2

PeriscopeDepth · 08-13-05, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivingWind

I'll rather wait for official patch.(for online play purposes)

You're more patient than I am.

Kapitan · 08-13-05, 04:04 PM

yep and me

jsteed · 08-13-05, 04:25 PM

Hi Luftwolf & Amizaur,

Well done

The two stage SS-N-27 is a very nice idea. Although I haven't played DW for some time now, (went back to SC because of active sonar bug), I congratulate you both on your efforts. Hopefully, you will continue to develop your db/doctrine mods.

cheers, jsteed

LuftWolf · 08-13-05, 09:17 PM

TLAM-- I'm glad you got it working. I hope you enjoy the MM fix as well, that is Amizaur's work, too. Given the complexity of the fixes, I think now that it deserved a special note in the readme that Amizaur did them. I will definately include that as a fix for myself in any subsequent versions.

:|\

Thanks guys...

If you use it for MP, let us know what you think!

I wouldn't want to be in an FFG...

TLAM Strike · 08-13-05, 09:38 PM

Noticed another thing. SS-N-27s can be tracked in Stage 1 on sonar. They don't fade like a real launch transient.

Just seems strange...

Landorin · 03-25-07, 04:00 PM

Hi just tried out the latest mod version (only played 3.04 long time ago a few times) and noticed some weird things: 1) I was playing a quick mission with FFG against an AI Typhoon sub. It took about 5 or so torps to sink it (MK46-50)! Is that really working as intended? I'm not a navy man but I doubt that thing can survive more than 2 hits the most (if at all). 2) readme says platforms now have 360 degree active intercept. Is that realistic (I don't know, so I'm seriously asking)? Somehow the idea of having a blind spot sounded more exciting (and allowed sneakier tactics). What I really like is that thermal layers seem to make a bigger difference now as well as the AI helo uses the dipping sonar.

Molon Labe · 03-25-07, 07:26 PM

360 degree active intercept has to be realistic...unless there's some engineering reason why it can't be done, but what could that be?

As for the Typhoon, the damage level was set so that it could barely survive a single ADCAP hit. It'll take 5 50s or 54s to take it down. Considering that the 50/54s are very small weapons, and a Typhoon is the size of a WWII carrier, that doesn't bother me too much. And even if it did, I'd still wonder just how often anything that carries the 50/54 would end up getting a shot at a Typhoon. Russia keeps them under the ice and close to home...if someone takes a shot at a Typhoon, it'll be an SSN.

LuftWolf · 03-26-07, 05:27 PM

Take a look at a picture of a Typhoon and understand that the warhead of a Mk50 is about the size of your head, and you will understand why that makes sense.

The Typhoon has multiple hulls, in fact the gap between the inner and outer hulls is probably bigger than the Mk50 is long.

The ADCAP torpedoes, which are much larger weapons, are in fact designed with a two-stage HEAT-type warhead that is designed to burn through the outside hull of largers Russian submarines and then direct the blast of the second charge completely into the final hull (by reports...).

Russian submarines are supposedly designed to sustain hits from normal torpedo warheads, and so the the Mk 48 ADCAP warhead was designed to defeat these designs... or so the story goes.

Cheers,
David

PS The 360 degree Active Intercept performance is confirmed by modern submariners (Bill Nichols

).

Delareon · 03-28-07, 02:55 AM

Hi folks,
yesterday i tried the LWAMI mod, seems like a lot of work a lot of good work.
But also i got some problems using this mod.
The first is that Auto SonarCrew doesnt work longer.
I saw a really clear contact on the 688i Broadband Sonar and the AutoCrew
doesnt mind.
This was on the Sicillian Wedding mission while i was moving from one Op Area to another, regulary i dont use Sonar AutoCrew. Then when i marked the Contact myself, The Tracker was left from the place where it was displayed.
No chance to move it to that position where the contact is really displayed at the Sonar. Cant make a screenshot now because im at work but i will try to visualize it.
i use the following signs * for the sonar line and a | for the marker. So when i marked the contact the marker was on a similar position like this:

___|_____________________
´´´´*´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´
´´´´*´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´

The next problem was that the Sonar display was freezed.
After a few minutes the display starts running again then it freezes again.

Was using the actual version from www.subguru.com and there are no other mods installed.
Hope u can reproduce this problems.

LuftWolf · 08-13-05, 10:05 PM

TLAM

This is a direct consequence of the Missle Launch Sound fix. In the DB, all sublaunched missles have a 100 PSL. The TASM and the SS-N-27 (both I have tested and exhibit this phenomenon) are seaskimming missles, travelling over the water at around 30ft.

This entirely unintended, and a consequence of the DW sound physics engine.

You guys can tell me how it should be... I suppose this makes ASM much less attractive now. So I guess I should ask our sonar men: will a seaskimming missle leave a transient?

Edit: Well, I've pretty much figured out that objects travelling at sea-skimming level and little above are treated by the sound engine as being on the surface.

This is unexpected and unwelcome, as the fix was the same as that applied to SCX, so I guess that means something has been changed and needs to be changed again. :hmm:

Edit Two: GRRRR..... Well, that didn't take long. SOME sonar sensors are set to have a detection capability at 300ft above sea-level, but not all.

I have to fix this, since the game isn't generally written where I'd want that to be the case. I want to email Amizaur and ask him about this, but I'm pretty sure I can go ahead with this.

Expect an updated version very soon, this should be a simple fix.

Thanks TLAM for bringing this up.

LuftWolf · 08-14-05, 12:00 AM

Ok, I believe I have resolved the problem. Previously, all playable hull sonars' max height were set to 0m (ok), but all the sphere and TA sonars were set to 300m. According to my understanding of array geometry, max-min shouldn't affect the operation of it in the cone.

So, I have changed all playable passive sonars to have max height of 10m and min height of -3000m. I found that if I set it to 0, then even in low seas contacts would not display correctly on the waterfall. I have changed the hull sonars as well, in order to be consistent. In addition, I have changed the sonar buoy parameters to match these as well, to eliminate the same skipping problem.

Everything seems to work and the seaskimmers don't show up on sonar anymore.

I and a few others need to play around with it a little bit more to be sure I haven't messed anything up. If anyone wants to look at the fix, send me a PM. :|\

Mercedes · 08-14-05, 02:19 AM

The test torpedos used by the Kilo's doesn't appear to respond to guidence input from the wire after the weapons mod. They still respond to enable/pre-enable and shutdown commands. As far as I can remember they originally had full capability in the unmodded version.

Correct me if i'm wrong on this one.

LuftWolf · 08-14-05, 04:17 AM

Those torpedos have been unaffected by the mod. They can only be steered before they have enabled for the first time, if I remember correctly.

Mercedes · 08-14-05, 04:32 AM

Thanks!

Wim Libaers · 08-14-05, 09:44 AM

I think the sonar sensitivity to air units was intended to be able to track ASW helicopters using the passive dipping sonar. Does that still work with the mod?

08-13-05, 04:04 PM	#2
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,090 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 7	yep and me __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

08-13-05, 09:17 PM	#4
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	TLAM-- I'm glad you got it working. I hope you enjoy the MM fix as well, that is Amizaur's work, too. Given the complexity of the fixes, I think now that it deserved a special note in the readme that Amizaur did them. I will definately include that as a fix for myself in any subsequent versions. :\|\ Thanks guys... If you use it for MP, let us know what you think! I wouldn't want to be in an FFG... __________________ LW

08-13-05, 09:38 PM	#5
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Noticed another thing. SS-N-27s can be tracked in Stage 1 on sonar. They don't fade like a real launch transient. Just seems strange... __________________

03-25-07, 07:26 PM	#7
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	360 degree active intercept has to be realistic...unless there's some engineering reason why it can't be done, but what could that be? As for the Typhoon, the damage level was set so that it could barely survive a single ADCAP hit. It'll take 5 50s or 54s to take it down. Considering that the 50/54s are very small weapons, and a Typhoon is the size of a WWII carrier, that doesn't bother me too much. And even if it did, I'd still wonder just how often anything that carries the 50/54 would end up getting a shot at a Typhoon. Russia keeps them under the ice and close to home...if someone takes a shot at a Typhoon, it'll be an SSN. __________________

03-26-07, 05:27 PM	#8
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Take a look at a picture of a Typhoon and understand that the warhead of a Mk50 is about the size of your head, and you will understand why that makes sense. The Typhoon has multiple hulls, in fact the gap between the inner and outer hulls is probably bigger than the Mk50 is long. The ADCAP torpedoes, which are much larger weapons, are in fact designed with a two-stage HEAT-type warhead that is designed to burn through the outside hull of largers Russian submarines and then direct the blast of the second charge completely into the final hull (by reports...). Russian submarines are supposedly designed to sustain hits from normal torpedo warheads, and so the the Mk 48 ADCAP warhead was designed to defeat these designs... or so the story goes. Cheers, David PS The 360 degree Active Intercept performance is confirmed by modern submariners (Bill Nichols ). __________________ LW

08-13-05, 04:25 PM	#3
jsteed Watch Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 19 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Hi Luftwolf & Amizaur, Well done The two stage SS-N-27 is a very nice idea. Although I haven't played DW for some time now, (went back to SC because of active sonar bug), I congratulate you both on your efforts. Hopefully, you will continue to develop your db/doctrine mods. cheers, jsteed

03-25-07, 04:00 PM	#6
Landorin Nub Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 3 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hi just tried out the latest mod version (only played 3.04 long time ago a few times) and noticed some weird things: 1) I was playing a quick mission with FFG against an AI Typhoon sub. It took about 5 or so torps to sink it (MK46-50)! Is that really working as intended? I'm not a navy man but I doubt that thing can survive more than 2 hits the most (if at all). 2) readme says platforms now have 360 degree active intercept. Is that realistic (I don't know, so I'm seriously asking)? Somehow the idea of having a blind spot sounded more exciting (and allowed sneakier tactics). What I really like is that thermal layers seem to make a bigger difference now as well as the AI helo uses the dipping sonar.

03-28-07, 02:55 AM	#9
Delareon Planesman Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 192 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Hi folks, yesterday i tried the LWAMI mod, seems like a lot of work a lot of good work. But also i got some problems using this mod. The first is that Auto SonarCrew doesnt work longer. I saw a really clear contact on the 688i Broadband Sonar and the AutoCrew doesnt mind. This was on the Sicillian Wedding mission while i was moving from one Op Area to another, regulary i dont use Sonar AutoCrew. Then when i marked the Contact myself, The Tracker was left from the place where it was displayed. No chance to move it to that position where the contact is really displayed at the Sonar. Cant make a screenshot now because im at work but i will try to visualize it. i use the following signs * for the sonar line and a \| for the marker. So when i marked the contact the marker was on a similar position like this: ___\|_____________________ ´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´ ´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´ The next problem was that the Sonar display was freezed. After a few minutes the display starts running again then it freezes again. Was using the actual version from www.subguru.com and there are no other mods installed. Hope u can reproduce this problems.

08-13-05, 10:05 PM	#10
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	TLAM This is a direct consequence of the Missle Launch Sound fix. In the DB, all sublaunched missles have a 100 PSL. The TASM and the SS-N-27 (both I have tested and exhibit this phenomenon) are seaskimming missles, travelling over the water at around 30ft. This entirely unintended, and a consequence of the DW sound physics engine. You guys can tell me how it should be... I suppose this makes ASM much less attractive now. So I guess I should ask our sonar men: will a seaskimming missle leave a transient? Edit: Well, I've pretty much figured out that objects travelling at sea-skimming level and little above are treated by the sound engine as being on the surface. This is unexpected and unwelcome, as the fix was the same as that applied to SCX, so I guess that means something has been changed and needs to be changed again. :hmm: Edit Two: GRRRR..... Well, that didn't take long. SOME sonar sensors are set to have a detection capability at 300ft above sea-level, but not all. I have to fix this, since the game isn't generally written where I'd want that to be the case. I want to email Amizaur and ask him about this, but I'm pretty sure I can go ahead with this. Expect an updated version very soon, this should be a simple fix. Thanks TLAM for bringing this up. __________________ LW

08-14-05, 12:00 AM	#11
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, I believe I have resolved the problem. Previously, all playable hull sonars' max height were set to 0m (ok), but all the sphere and TA sonars were set to 300m. According to my understanding of array geometry, max-min shouldn't affect the operation of it in the cone. So, I have changed all playable passive sonars to have max height of 10m and min height of -3000m. I found that if I set it to 0, then even in low seas contacts would not display correctly on the waterfall. I have changed the hull sonars as well, in order to be consistent. In addition, I have changed the sonar buoy parameters to match these as well, to eliminate the same skipping problem. Everything seems to work and the seaskimmers don't show up on sonar anymore. I and a few others need to play around with it a little bit more to be sure I haven't messed anything up. If anyone wants to look at the fix, send me a PM. :\|\ __________________ LW

08-14-05, 02:19 AM	#12
Mercedes Watch Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Test 71 The test torpedos used by the Kilo's doesn't appear to respond to guidence input from the wire after the weapons mod. They still respond to enable/pre-enable and shutdown commands. As far as I can remember they originally had full capability in the unmodded version. Correct me if i'm wrong on this one.

08-14-05, 04:17 AM	#13
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Those torpedos have been unaffected by the mod. They can only be steered before they have enabled for the first time, if I remember correctly. __________________ LW

08-14-05, 04:32 AM	#14
Mercedes Watch Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks!

08-14-05, 09:44 AM	#15
Wim Libaers Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Flanders Posts: 569 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I think the sonar sensitivity to air units was intended to be able to track ASW helicopters using the passive dipping sonar. Does that still work with the mod?