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Old 07-08-10, 07:36 AM   #46
TheDarkWraith
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Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
This is how the Feared Hunters worked and the reason why I don't use it anymore since patch 1.2. They gather around the sub last contact position and grind the place dropping millions of DC's, eventually damaging them self and sunk. Seeing 10 or more DD's doing this made me to uninstall all my AI improvement mods and playing only with stock game. Hope that your work will be very different.. actually I'm convinced.
I rewrote >75% of the ship's AI so they will act differently It is an entirely new and different AI than stock or any other AI mod.
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Old 07-08-10, 07:41 AM   #47
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they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now
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Old 07-08-10, 07:45 AM   #48
TheDarkWraith
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they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now
that's what I wanted to hear Now once I get the DC's tuned to the correct values for damage and radius and all you should be very leary about escorts or single warships detecting you and getting DC'd.

I did notice a bug with the ship's AI though. Once they detect their first contact they are always in alert state even if the contact doesn't exist anymore or is gone (out of range of it's sensors). I'll have to fix that.

Last edited by TheDarkWraith; 07-08-10 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 07-08-10, 08:20 AM   #49
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they throw a hell of DC carpets now, makes it much more scary now

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Old 07-08-10, 09:04 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith View Post
I did notice a bug with the ship's AI though. Once they detect their first contact they are always in alert state even if the contact doesn't exist anymore or is gone (out of range of it's sensors). I'll have to fix that.
How long do they stay on alert? I know it shouldn't be forever, but it stands to reason that they wouldn't relax immediately if they knew something was in the area.
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Old 07-08-10, 09:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith View Post
I rewrote >75% of the ship's AI so they will act differently It is an entirely new and different AI than stock or any other AI mod.
Getting near to my dream. Campaign built by the AI :P
Just going out on a simple patrol where you can never know what to expect, just like was in the real life. Random events combined with a smart and evil AI.. damn, gotta love it :P
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Old 07-08-10, 10:05 AM   #52
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I've never seen a carrier in game yet so I have to ask some questions. If you disable the mod, does this happen? What usually happens when a carrier is first hit with a torpedo, does it do something special?
I have sunk about 5 carriers in SH5(a while back now) and I never got CTD with any of them. The only special thing that sets them apart from other ships when they are struck by a torp that I can think of is that the planes on deck tend to explode and fly into the water. A lot of ship totally explode when struck(some times unrealistically like when I know I did not hit something vital) but the carriers are the only ones I have ever hit with planes on board. Has anyone sunk a cargo ship with planes sitting on it, I know SHIII had them?
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Old 07-08-10, 12:40 PM   #53
reaper7
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Sorry TDW meant to post this last night after testing, but it was late and I was working in 5hrs time.

Anyway this is a great improvement to the UI. Started The suggested mission.
And headed straight into the pack from the front at periscope depth.
Sent a Torp at the leader from 2000m out to get there attention, and crash dived to 70M.

Went to external camera (Playing at medium settings to test Mod).
After a min the Pack Leader got what it deserved and went down fast.
Search lights were lit up on all the remaining vessels. From the External Camera I could see that they didn't know where the Torp came from as a few Groups started to do search patterns about 1500M out from my position - there spot lights searching everywhere.

I Time compressed till they got about 800M out and returned to standard time.
After a min I noticed that all the ships searchlight turned to focus at my spot (I've being discovered - Is this stock behavior or the result of your AI), now the fun begins.

I get 4 destroyers making passes straight over my position dropping depth charges all over the place - no hits but close.
This continued for an hour till I had to turn off. I had not escaped at this point and they dropped a hell of a lot of DC over me, some damage but nothing critical. At this stage I had about 3 Groups making passes and dropping Dc's then moving out of the way for the next group to make its pass. (They would also DC away from my position.

Was exciting to play, look forward to your future additions.

Spotlights overhead.


Depth charges Incoming.
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Old 07-08-10, 01:34 PM   #54
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Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.



JCC
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Old 07-08-10, 01:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by John Channing View Post
Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.



JCC
That would be nice, if possible to even have the delay random.
Then ships would light up at different times, would give the ships a more lived in look.

Also I seen a mod on the SH3 forums that made the merchants not switch on the searchlights when not directly attacked to attempt to remain unnoticed.
Think this was the general rule for merchants in wartime.
Maybe some could be made to turn on randomly. For the suprise element .

Anyway to make the Merchants keep on course (While zigzagging) when the leader stops when convoy under attack, instead of everyone stopping
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Old 07-08-10, 02:34 PM   #56
TheDarkWraith
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Originally Posted by John Channing View Post
Nice!

This leads me to a question/request.

Is it possible to put a time delay on the searchlights. It has always been the case that the nano-second after the torp hits all the lights come on. It's like the lookouts are sitting there with their hands on the switches. I know it's a small thing, but the small things add up to some really big things.

Oh.. and I haven't tried this mod yet, but if you have actually already done this.... please disregard.



JCC
not sure anything can be done about the spotlights. The devs didn't give any way to control them in the ship's AI routines.

Next thing I'm going to add to the ship's AI is the destroyer that sits there waiting for you to resurface. My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

Is the AI too smart? Or is the AI not smart enough? Do they find you to easily? Is it impossible to 'lose' them once detected or does it seem about right or ??
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Old 07-08-10, 03:00 PM   #57
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I played the PQ-17 mission twice last night with somewhat mixed results. My first try was the one I had issues with, though I'm not sure how big these issues actually are.

The first thing I noticed was that as the escorts approached they appeared to be getting attacked by something, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out by what. It looked like they were dropping Depth Charges at first, but they didn't change course at all and some of the explosions were going off in front of the ships. I couldn't see anything around that might be attacking them (planes/ships), and these certainly weren't explosions caused by another U-Boat. I doubt this has anything to do with your AI but I didn't want to leave it unmentioned.

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts, at which point I surfaced and the mission ended. Again, I don't know if this is actually an AI issue or has more to do with the mission script.

On the second playthrough I wanted to be sure the escorts knew I was there so when they were passing by me I kicked the engines on to make sure they heard me. The result was pretty devastating. I had 7 or 8 ships above me, all taking turns dropping depth charges, and was able to spot the director, sitting there calmly with his light fixed on my position. It took them about 20 minutes to sink me (at 160 meters the whole time), and I don't see any way that I could have gotten away from them. Having given them a much better fix on my location initially than you ever would under normal circumstances it seems about right that I wouldn't have been able to survive the encounter.

Seems like a huge improvement so far, they're very aggressive and effective at pinning you down. My only real concern is with their apparent disinterest at the convoy getting attacked the first time around.



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Old 07-08-10, 03:19 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith View Post
not sure anything can be done about the spotlights. The devs didn't give any way to control them in the ship's AI routines.

Next thing I'm going to add to the ship's AI is the destroyer that sits there waiting for you to resurface. My question is how often did a destroyer just sit around waiting for the sub to resurface? How many were left to do this duty when the others returned back to the convoy? How long did they sit there and wait? Did they move position to keep in constant 'contact' with the sub or did they just park in one spot and wait? How far back did they sit from the sub waiting?

Is the AI too smart? Or is the AI not smart enough? Do they find you to easily? Is it impossible to 'lose' them once detected or does it seem about right or ??
The Black Swan is the dedicated sub hunter-killer, the rest is mostly for protection and keeping the threat away. So if is any BS in the convoy, they should stay in shadow and hunt the sub no matter how long will take. The are also equipped for this job, having the best sub detections tools on board. So NFF_Black_Swan should be the most aggressive and feared sub hunter, focus on that.
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Old 07-08-10, 03:21 PM   #59
reaper7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DICY View Post
I played the PQ-17 mission twice last night with somewhat mixed results. My first try was the one I had issues with, though I'm not sure how big these issues actually are.

The first thing I noticed was that as the escorts approached they appeared to be getting attacked by something, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out by what. It looked like they were dropping Depth Charges at first, but they didn't change course at all and some of the explosions were going off in front of the ships. I couldn't see anything around that might be attacking them (planes/ships), and these certainly weren't explosions caused by another U-Boat. I doubt this has anything to do with your AI but I didn't want to leave it unmentioned.

The second thing I saw that I think is a bit more of a problem; I got in front of the escorts, went to about 140 meters to let them pass over me, than went to periscope depth when they were past me. However, when I attacked the merchants none of the escorts seemed to care at all. No course change, nobody coming to look for me, they just kept on going as if nothing had happened. I didn't expect them to be able to find me, but I at least would have thought they'd try. I was able to attack the convoy two more times without any response from the escorts, at which point I surfaced and the mission ended. Again, I don't know if this is actually an AI issue or has more to do with the mission script.

On the second playthrough I wanted to be sure the escorts knew I was there so when they were passing by me I kicked the engines on to make sure they heard me. The result was pretty devastating. I had 7 or 8 ships above me, all taking turns dropping depth charges, and was able to spot the director, sitting there calmly with his light fixed on my position. It took them about 20 minutes to sink me (at 160 meters the whole time), and I don't see any way that I could have gotten away from them. Having given them a much better fix on my location initially than you ever would under normal circumstances it seems about right that I wouldn't have been able to survive the encounter.

Seems like a huge improvement so far, they're very aggressive and effective at pinning you down. My only real concern is with their apparent disinterest at the convoy getting attacked the first time around.
Yes I noticed the Ships depth charging when I first spotted them also, I just put it down to it being a scripted mission and they were expecting an attack .

Also one thing I noticed last night testing. One of the Destroyers was sailing backwards over my position depthcharging, preventing others doing there run.

Haven't tried it in game yet to see the results.
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Old 07-08-10, 03:43 PM   #60
Sonarman
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Hey TDW, great work so far. You've probably seen this in the past but here just in case you haven't is a link to the great escort tactics presentation/game the BBC put up a while ago, it clearly explains raspberry/pineapple etc.
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