[REL] Knights of the Sea Depths II: Ace Edition

[Kapitän]

Hello Fellow Kaleuns,

I'm in the process of learning this version of the game and already received a lot of information in another thread in the "Wolves of the Pacific" page and now moved over here, since it is dedicated towards this particular Mod.

As I'm going along, I come across some items that are somewhat different from what I have seen up until now, and would appreciate any information that is available.

1. How does one select the "Combat Support Unit", do they show up on the Nav Map (F5)?

2. "Toggle ON/OFF Auto Torpedo Reloading": It doesn't seem to matter if it is ON or OFF, the torpedoes will get reloaded either way. Is that normal game behavioru?

3. Battery Charging: When selecting "Battery Charging", it seems to take a VERY long time until the are charged (if at all). Is this also normal game behaviour?

4. Also, seem to notice that the periscope - even if only about 1m above the water line - will be seen by by merchants or escorts alike, at a distance of about 900m (in 1940 and assuming that ASW vessels have no radar installed yet). Is this also your experience?

5. In Sh3, there is a kind of "Semi-Manual-Torpedo-Targeting" possible, whereas one can select the support of the Weapons Officer but still has the option for manual targeting if desired. Is this also the case here with KSDII Ace?

Many thanks!

[Bubblehead1980]

Are realistic/historically accurate night surface attacks possible in this mod?


Including getting inside the convoy on the surface?


I am coming over from US side of things, I made this possible in TMO, wondering if possible in this mod since was a huge part of U boat operations. Hoping it is, I'm tired of modding lol.

[SnipersHunter]

In General I would unfortunately say no, usually you get spotted. You can’t get as close as they did in real life.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by SnipersHunter

In General I would unfortunately say no, usually you get spotted. You can’t get as close as they did in real life.

Guess that is something I will have to make happen.

[SnipersHunter]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Guess that is something I will have to make happen.

That would be amazing

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by SnipersHunter

That would be amazing

I agree. Really has added a whole new life to SH 4 in TMO, on the US side of things, to be able to pull off night surface attacks as the did at realistic ranges.

Hopefully can do so on U Boat side. Main things is nights will have to be made darker, since they are way too light in SH and every mod ive seen (havent tried dark waters yet but assuming so, I recall OM was light) and then a matter of adjusting visual sensors to interact properly with the darker night.

Took a couple months of tweaking and testing to get it right in TMO lol but since have the knowledge now, prop wont take as long if its possible. Will get started soon.

[SnipersHunter]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I agree. Really has added a whole new life to SH 4 in TMO, on the US side of things, to be able to pull off night surface attacks as the did at realistic ranges.

Hopefully can do so on U Boat side. Main things is nights will have to be made darker, since they are way too light in SH and every mod ive seen (havent tried dark waters yet but assuming so, I recall OM was light) and then a matter of adjusting visual sensors to interact properly with the darker night.

Took a couple months of tweaking and testing to get it right in TMO lol but since have the knowledge now, prop wont take as long if its possible. Will get started soon.

I am pretty sure that Niume would appreciate this as much as I do. Since TMO and KSD are both using SH4 it might be easier for you when you already have the things you did for TMO at hand

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Are realistic/historically accurate night surface attacks possible in this mod?


Including getting inside the convoy on the surface?

Fwiw, this was not a common tactic. A very, very few did it (only two I can think of).......sometimes, not even always. In terms of "realism" of the mod, the lack of wolfpack attacks is a far greater issue than this.
But that is because of the game's structure, not the mod maker(s), who have done an outstanding job with what they have available.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

Fwiw, this was not a common tactic. A very, very few did it (only two I can think of).......sometimes, not even always. In terms of "realism" of the mod, the lack of wolfpack attacks is a far greater issue than this.
But that is because of the game's structure, not the mod maker(s), who have done an outstanding job with what they have available.

Night surface attacks were not common?


I thought, much as it later did with US (who were copying the Germans to that degree) in the pacific, night surface attack became the preferred method for U Boats, especially before Allied radar advanced.


Or did you you mean getting inside convoy was not common ? If so, I figured that, but since it was done, believe should be possible in the sim and up to player. I made it possible in TMO with certain convoys in 1944/45 when they are larger, somewhat resembling Allied convoys(never as many ships though. A lot depends on the moonlight and sea state though. Really a lot of "fun" brings a new level to the sim and quite effective in attacks, can see it being same on U boat side.


I agree on the wolfpack issue, yet another huge oversight by UBI.


In TMO I have US wolfpacks operating on a limited basis in latest TMO update. I placed AI torpedo firing subs...submerged and surfaced in players area, along convoy routes at appropriate times and dates.

They will attack independently and if within certain radius, they will respond to players contact reports on convoys by searching for the convoy Of course there is no coordination nor communication outside of scripted messages I placed in the campaign, but especially during night surface attack when ships start blowing up before you fire, but it gives player the feeling of operating with other subs. They will torpedo enemy ships, provide distraction that assists players.

Plays out much as US wolfpacks operated, which was of course different than German operations.



I could see a way to make it happen with U Boats, of course would be a much large scale etc and would need AI uboats that fire torpedoes, but could be done. I have them in TMO, but the AI U boats need some tweaking, we've had issues.



In TMO Update I recently released, I have a SUBRON 50 campaign, US subs operating in Atlantic 1942-1943. One mission (as some were assigned) is to patrol for U-Boats in North Atlantic. I added a wolfpack of U Boats in a patrol line. I placed them, used text editing to set their spacing beyond what the mission editor allows in mission file, spaced about 50 miles apart along the general line of atlantic convoys.


One night in March 1943, I made SJ contact on a convoy in North Atlantic and then noticed fires burning in the distance, explosions. Wolfpack was attacking the convoy. Difficult to ascertain exact number but at least 8 U Boats attacked the convoy. I managed to get visual on one U boat and sunk it with torpedoes.


One key is the surfaced models while appear as subs, as classified in game as the Elite Destroyer Escorts, so they behave aggressively. They fire torpedoes, The submerged subs are of course submarines, they are not as aggressive but will attack and are affectively.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Night surface attacks were not common?


I thought, much as it later did with US (who were copying the Germans to that degree) in the pacific, night surface attack became the preferred method for U Boats, especially before Allied radar advanced.


Or did you you mean getting inside convoy was not common ? If so, I figured that, but since it was done, believe should be possible in the sim and up to player. I made it possible in TMO with certain convoys in 1944/45 when they are larger, somewhat resembling Allied convoys(never as many ships though. A lot depends on the moonlight and sea state though. Really a lot of "fun" brings a new level to the sim and quite effective in attacks, can see it being same on U boat side.


I agree on the wolfpack issue, yet another huge oversight by UBI.


In TMO I have US wolfpacks operating on a limited basis in latest TMO update. I placed AI torpedo firing subs...submerged and surfaced in players area, along convoy routes at appropriate times and dates.

They will attack independently and if within certain radius, they will respond to players contact reports on convoys by searching for the convoy Of course there is no coordination nor communication outside of scripted messages I placed in the campaign, but especially during night surface attack when ships start blowing up before you fire, but it gives player the feeling of operating with other subs. They will torpedo enemy ships, provide distraction that assists players.

Plays out much as US wolfpacks operated, which was of course different than German operations.



I could see a way to make it happen with U Boats, of course would be a much large scale etc and would need AI uboats that fire torpedoes, but could be done. I have them in TMO, but the AI U boats need some tweaking, we've had issues.



In TMO Update I recently released, I have a SUBRON 50 campaign, US subs operating in Atlantic 1942-1943. One mission (as some were assigned) is to patrol for U-Boats in North Atlantic. I added a wolfpack of U Boats in a patrol line. I placed them, used text editing to set their spacing beyond what the mission editor allows in mission file, spaced about 50 miles apart along the general line of atlantic convoys.


One night in March 1943, I made SJ contact on a convoy in North Atlantic and then noticed fires burning in the distance, explosions. Wolfpack was attacking the convoy. Difficult to ascertain exact number but at least 8 U Boats attacked the convoy. I managed to get visual on one U boat and sunk it with torpedoes.


One key is the surfaced models while appear as subs, as classified in game as the Elite Destroyer Escorts, so they behave aggressively. They fire torpedoes, The submerged subs are of course submarines, they are not as aggressive but will attack and are affectively.

My post was in reference to inside the convoy attacks. But I'd rather have the ability to do these vs. the game(s) allowing ahistorical night periscope attacks to be possible.
Fwiw, inside the convoy attacks in the Atlantic would also only be possible very early war, before the advent of Allied ship borne radar (March, 41)

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

My post was in reference to inside the convoy attacks. But I'd rather have the ability to do these vs. the game(s) allowing ahistorical night periscope attacks to be possible.

Thought so, just checking.

Yes same, here. Well, I think to balance it as I did in the pacific side of things is the key. Make it possible to get inside and attack as some did, but not possibly every time with every convoy. Players can choose to risk it or attack from outside or on a full moon, conduct a periscope attack.


Germans did make periscope attacks at night in certain conditions correct?

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thought so, just checking.

Yes same, here. Well, I think to balance it as I did in the pacific side of things is the key. Make it possible to get inside and attack as some did, but not possibly every time with every convoy. Players can choose to risk it or attack from outside or on a full moon, conduct a periscope attack.


Germans did make periscope attacks at night in certain conditions correct?

Only even considered on the brightest of full moon nights. Periscope attacks in general were discouraged due to limiting the ability of the boat to maintain contact with the convoy and the ability of the boat to escape.

I.e., generally, woe to the skipper who called in a daylight convoy contact and then did a scope attack vs. shadowing it until night.

[Niume]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

Hello Fellow Kaleuns,

I'm in the process of learning this version of the game and already received a lot of information in another thread in the "Wolves of the Pacific" page and now moved over here, since it is dedicated towards this particular Mod.

As I'm going along, I come across some items that are somewhat different from what I have seen up until now, and would appreciate any information that is available.

1. How does one select the "Combat Support Unit", do they show up on the Nav Map (F5)?

2. "Toggle ON/OFF Auto Torpedo Reloading": It doesn't seem to matter if it is ON or OFF, the torpedoes will get reloaded either way. Is that normal game behavioru?

3. Battery Charging: When selecting "Battery Charging", it seems to take a VERY long time until the are charged (if at all). Is this also normal game behaviour?

4. Also, seem to notice that the periscope - even if only about 1m above the water line - will be seen by by merchants or escorts alike, at a distance of about 900m (in 1940 and assuming that ASW vessels have no radar installed yet). Is this also your experience?

5. In Sh3, there is a kind of "Semi-Manual-Torpedo-Targeting" possible, whereas one can select the support of the Weapons Officer but still has the option for manual targeting if desired. Is this also the case here with KSDII Ace?

Many thanks!

1. This is left over feature from the stock. In the stock game you could call in Japanese warship.
2.This is not normal behavior. It works fine for me.
3. The battery charging is set to historical values. How long does it take for you to charge the battery from 50% to 100%?
4. At least for me I do not encounter this problem. What version of the modpack are you using?
5. Sadly, no SH4 does not have option for Weapons officer to calculate the torpedo solution like in Sh3. Either you choose manual torpedo targeting or automatic.


It seems that your install is corrupted. When installing modpack did you selected a fresh new folder? Remember this installer has everything included even the "base game". You just need to select where you want it to be installed on your computer

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by Niume

1. This is left over feature from the stock. In the stock game you could call in Japanese warship.
2.This is not normal behavior. It works fine for me.
3. The battery charging is set to historical values. How long does it take for you to charge the battery from 50% to 100%?
4. At least for me I do not encounter this problem. What version of the modpack are you using?
5. Sadly, no SH4 does not have option for Weapons officer to calculate the torpedo solution like in Sh3. Either you choose manual torpedo targeting or automatic.


It seems that your install is corrupted. When installing modpack did you selected a fresh new folder? Remember this installer has everything included even the "base game". You just need to select where you want it to be installed on your computer

Hi Niume,

Thanks for your response! Yes, I did a fresh/first install of KSDII, downloaded the zip-folder from a download link provided here, unpacked and installed the game in a brand new folder. I suppose, something still could have gone wrong ...

About the points:
I'm now in Campaign mode with a IXD2 boat in 10.42, leaving Bordeaux and headed toward Brazil.

1. Okay, so calling on combat support units doesn't work in KSDII, correct?

2. Torpedo reloading: Seems to work now ... I guess, I just hadn't figured out how to do it yet.

3. Battery reacharging: Didn't have to recharge from 50% yet, only from about 95% and that went pretty quickly. Only thing is, I'm not sure how to read the gauges correctly: The pull out gauge shows max 350, while the one in the C/R shows 450. How do you do the battery capacitiy reading?

4. So, also here, I just experienced that ASW vessels that were already searching for me and I was tracking them from periscope depth, started firing at my position from about 1500m out, the periscope was just about at sea level, waves washing over it, clear sunny day, wind 5sm. Modpack version is 1.4.1.

5. Okay, clear, thanks!

I have a couple new observations:

6. I noticed something else, if I may: In the map view (F5) one can see the sensor fields of the ships. What I noticed is, that these seem to be much less than let's say in Sh3. For example, just now, the ASWs were showing a field of view of about 6000m, which seems very short. As one would expect, they spotted me at about 8000m, which led to the situation described in point 5. above. Can you confirm this as well?

7. When setting depth 20m from let's see 100m, the boat doesn't level out at 20m but continues to rise to periscope depth or more, even breaching the surface at times and I have to set for 20m at least twice to make the boat respond. Also, diving from being surfaced is super slow when diving normally (i.e., not crash diving). Is this behaviour perhaps, due to the fact that it is a big IXD2 boat?

8. Fuel gauge: Fuel consumption seems to be very low. Right now, I'm at about 10cbm in 24h, even at Half Ahead or Full Ahead. Doesn't seem very realistic ...

Just a general note: I'm in campaign mode now and making frequent game saves (about every 12 hours), which I then overwrite. Always worked fine with Sh3. Could this be a potential source of any adverse effects?

Thanks again for your help!

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

Hi Niume,

Thanks for your response! Yes, I did a fresh/first install of KSDII, downloaded the zip-folder from a download link provided here, unpacked and installed the game in a brand new folder. I suppose, something still could have gone wrong ...

About the points:
I'm now in Campaign mode with a IXD2 boat in 10.42, leaving Bordeaux and headed toward Brazil.

1. Okay, so calling on combat support units doesn't work in KSDII, correct?

2. Torpedo reloading: Seems to work now ... I guess, I just hadn't figured out how to do it yet.

3. Battery reacharging: Didn't have to recharge from 50% yet, only from about 95% and that went pretty quickly. Only thing is, I'm not sure how to read the gauges correctly: The pull out gauge shows max 350, while the one in the C/R shows 450. How do you do the battery capacitiy reading?

4. So, also here, I just experienced that ASW vessels that were already searching for me and I was tracking them from periscope depth, started firing at my position from about 1500m out, the periscope was just about at sea level, waves washing over it, clear sunny day, wind 5sm. Modpack version is 1.4.1.

5. Okay, clear, thanks!

I have a couple new observations:

6. I noticed something else, if I may: In the map view (F5) one can see the sensor fields of the ships. What I noticed is, that these seem to be much less than let's say in Sh3. For example, just now, the ASWs were showing a field of view of about 6000m, which seems very short. As one would expect, they spotted me at about 8000m, which led to the situation described in point 5. above. Can you confirm this as well?

7. When setting depth 20m from let's see 100m, the boat doesn't level out at 20m but continues to rise to periscope depth or more, even breaching the surface at times and I have to set for 20m at least twice to make the boat respond. Also, diving from being surfaced is super slow when diving normally (i.e., not crash diving). Is this behaviour perhaps, due to the fact that it is a big IXD2 boat?

8. Fuel gauge: Fuel consumption seems to be very low. Right now, I'm at about 10cbm in 24h, even at Half Ahead or Full Ahead. Doesn't seem very realistic ...

Just a general note: I'm in campaign mode now and making frequent game saves (about every 12 hours), which I then overwrite. Always worked fine with Sh3. Could this be a potential source of any adverse effects?

Thanks again for your help!

With regards to #7...

Type II, is the fastest diving uboat.... the Type VII, is just behind that by a couple of seconds. After that, is the tail wagging the dog, per se... the Type IX... think it is like 5 or so seconds longer to dive, than the Type VII.








On saves.... NEVER... EVER... overwrite any saves... always do fresh ones... & that should NEVER be done in SH3, either.

Overwriting, has the potential to cause save corruption...








M. M.