Got a few gameplay questions/discussion

[ollie1983]

Ok so I am fighting my way through the campaign at present after having had a good stab a lot of the pre-set scenarios.

The only reason I am actually doing the campaign is because the pre-set scenarios are not random enough. Killing a couple of Whisky class is hardly a duel these days.

First of all, what is the effective range of surface ship active sonar? They seem to bang away constantly but I am never sure if they are getting a return or not? It makes combating the Udaloy/Krivak/Grisha groups a bit peculiar, in that they are generally noisy as sin yet actually harder to fight than enemy subs.

Second, what is the most reliable way of evading torpedos? I am manging to evade most of them but it isn't particularly technical just duck and weave. How are knuckles formed and how do you time an incoming attack to deploy one?

Third, when can we have some warning that dipping sonars and buoys are being used? The dippers don't seem to be pinging at all, which I thought was a bit odd.



Lastly, have the devs talked about letting us actually listen to the sonar output, and adding real time sounds to the game, transients, launches, hull popping, machinery noises and blade counts etc? I would really like to be able to sit and listen for contacts myself.

[ollie1983]

Oh and whilst we are at it, I have come across a wickedly good tactic.

Suppose you are facing a collection of surface contacts and have good solutions on them and you are in fairly deep water- at least 600ft.

Creep up to the surface, quietly, whilst loading up with harpoons or TASMs but keep one tube loaded with a MOSS.

Get within launching depth, then fire off your antiship missiles. Then fire the MOSS on a bearing away from your position.

Obviously the enemy will spot your launch datum and begin launching their own weapons or deploying helos to that area.

After launching your MOSS, turn away and get deep as fast as you can without cavitation. You will have a couple of minutes at most to get out of there before airborne torpedos arrive. You will be dived down and out of sight by then, the first thing their weapons will spot will be the MOSS. With luck they will chase it thousands of yards away and the distraction alone from that will keep the surface ships occupied.

Done it several times now.

[Lanzfeld]

Whenever the active value on the SMS Comp reaches positive 10 and they ping they will have you. I was hoping there would be a little human factor of + or - 1
in this but it does not seem to be true

[Nikita]

Knuckles are formed at the fastest speed you can, >25 kt, an turning your sub hard to one side and hard to the other. But it works just a few seconds, so I think is better to do it when the torpedo is very near (tested the knuckle, but not against a torpedo yet)

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally Posted by Nikita

Knuckles are formed at the fastest speed you can, >25 kt, an turning your sub hard to one side and hard to the other. But it works just a few seconds, so I think is better to do it when the torpedo is very near (tested the knuckle, but not against a torpedo yet)

Well, you just come back and let us know how that works out for ya!

[Nikita]

Ha, ha...! I'm afraid not mastered the sim enough to do it. I still have to start!

[Wiz33]

Watch the following videos:







Actually, just watch all his videos ;-P

[Wiz33]

Originally Posted by ollie1983

Oh and whilst we are at it, I have come across a wickedly good tactic.

Suppose you are facing a collection of surface contacts and have good solutions on them and you are in fairly deep water- at least 600ft.

Creep up to the surface, quietly, whilst loading up with harpoons or TASMs but keep one tube loaded with a MOSS.

Get within launching depth, then fire off your antiship missiles. Then fire the MOSS on a bearing away from your position.

Obviously the enemy will spot your launch datum and begin launching their own weapons or deploying helos to that area.

After launching your MOSS, turn away and get deep as fast as you can without cavitation. You will have a couple of minutes at most to get out of there before airborne torpedos arrive. You will be dived down and out of sight by then, the first thing their weapons will spot will be the MOSS. With luck they will chase it thousands of yards away and the distraction alone from that will keep the surface ships occupied.

Done it several times now.

1) Missiles should not be used in general. They pretty much gives away your launch position if anyone have active radar running (or even the good old Mark I eyeball).

2) They can get shot down easily by some of the more modern units (for the era).

The only time I use missile is to finish off a damaged target or against support ships after the escort have been eliminated

I'd like to jump in here with a question of my own if you don't mind. I didn't find any info on it so I'm guessing there isn't one, but does the game come with a mission editor? You know, so you can create your own missions and such? I would think that would give the game some extra legs. If it doesn't have one, any plans for one?

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by Wiz33

1) Missiles should not be used in general. They pretty much gives away your launch position if anyone have active radar running (or even the good old Mark I eyeball).

2) They can get shot down easily by some of the more modern units (for the era).

The only time I use missile is to finish off a damaged target or against support ships after the escort have been eliminated

A well-aimed missile which encounters the enemy head-on or straight from behind (down the throat or up the kilt, if you will) can evade shipborne CIWS entirely, since those narrow angles are the point-defense blind spots.

I've personally sunk a handful of warships that way, with the right single missile (Harpoon for small ones, TASM for big ones).

The alternative is to use a combination of sea-skimming and pop-up approaches to divide the CIWS attention and land a hit. More ammo-intensive, but viable sometimes. In general, missile use is situational as torpedoes aren't the best choice 100% of the time.

[Wiz33]

Originally Posted by Captain Shadow

A well-aimed missile which encounters the enemy head-on or straight from behind (down the throat or up the kilt, if you will) can evade shipborne CIWS entirely, since those narrow angles are the point-defense blind spots.

I've personally sunk a handful of warships that way, with the right single missile (Harpoon for small ones, TASM for big ones).

The alternative is to use a combination of sea-skimming and pop-up approaches to divide the CIWS attention and land a hit. More ammo-intensive, but viable sometimes. In general, missile use is situational as torpedoes aren't the best choice 100% of the time.

Ok. Looks like they simplified/dumb down CIWS for gameplay sake as they only modeled the AK-630 gun based system and not the missile system like the SA-N-4/9 and generalized the blind spot as some of the later Soviet warship have no blind spot for their CIWS.

[Lanzfeld]

After watching jive turkey sonar analysis video I'm a little confuse. I am 99% sure that nobody can hear you unless the value is +10. Active or passive. I think his video is way off

[Wiz33]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

After watching jive turkey sonar analysis video I'm a little confuse. I am 99% sure that nobody can hear you unless the value is +10. Active or passive. I think his video is way off

You mean in game or in real? Jive is a sonar tech on the 688 for many years and was actually on the training team that go around and teach new crew. What's your background?

[subunit]

Originally Posted by Wiz33

You mean in game or in real? Jive is a sonar tech on the 688 for many years and was actually on the training team that go around and teach new crew. What's your background?

He's quite obviously talking about the game, since he explicitly references the numerical threshold the game's mechanics use. It worked the same way in RSR, although the threshold was +8.

[Wiz33]

Originally Posted by subunit

He's quite obviously talking about the game, since he explicitly references the numerical threshold the game's mechanics use. It worked the same way in RSR, although the threshold was +8.

They updated the sensor data model in Cold Waters. All sensor is not equal, While it may take +10db for a older Kresta II to pick you up, A Udaloy will pick you up at a much lower value. All you got to look at the Sensors.txt file and you'll see different sensitivity value for each sensor used in the game.