VR the champions of the world?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Skybird can you recommend a good VR game which fit a newbie like me.

A game or Scenario where I walk in the nature..so I get used to these VR glasses.

You posted a video about kayaking I really liked that but is it for a newbie.

Markus

In the beginning, avoid games with first person perspective and then walking, also action paced flight sims. Seek steady, calm sceneries.

If you are suspicous you may suffer from motion sickness first and want to slowly adapt and train your brain, then get Virtual Desktop, i desribed it before. It costs a little money, 12 euros or so, but all workshop movie themes are free except the big Sydney cinema. It mirrors your desktop on that virtual moviescreen, form there you can then do as usual with your rig.

Start to watch videos in youtube with it. Sightseeing stuff for example. Visit other cities. Watch 2D videos in high resolution 4K and 8K and fullscreen, then the moviescreen is indeed a giant movie screen.

Then try 360° videos, that is one step higher, the screen disappears, the scene surrounds you from all sides. The videos however are a bit blurrier, even mroe so if theyx are old and were done with older 360-cameras of lesser resolution. For exmaple, sit on the uppoer deck of a tourst book and do a sihtseeing tourk the full tour, in New York. Or Berlin. Or where ever. Your trainign intensifies!

Then go to downloading from Steam the Google Earth and Streetview VR. You then learn to use the hand controllers more (Virtual Desktop can be used with controllers or mouse, as you like, and with real or with virtual keyboard, the latter via Microsoft onboard tools). That will impress you, and it has an onboard tutorial. Its free. Whenever you start to feel strange, you just do not do anything anymore, and the stuff you see is in frozen mode.

The above listed optiosn I am deeply thankful for being avialsble to me. I love them, and I use them all a very very lot. I have seen more of the world this way than a person could in all its life when travelling real. I feel like Alice in wonderland. Its a technical miracle that these things can be done, are possible.

The above is a smooth way to get into it, I think. What it is about is that you avoid programs with high speeds taking place at the rims of your viewing field, say a car racing along a wall, or a line of trees. Turbulent rotations along all three axes: aerial dogfights. First person shooters with plenty of rushing action and hectic. Try later, avoid at the start.

You ask for smooth walks in nature, well, I tried the Hunter games via Virtual Desktop, they did nto work well for me, even I felt strange, they are not made for VR, the head movement is the problem. Fallout 4 VR exists, but is not recommend, they say the conversion works not good, but I know Skyrim's VR clone, and that one works really good. But best really is to start with Google Earth, its Streetview option, and bicycle and walking videos in 2D high res or in 360° on Youtube.

You can also play on Virtual Desktop Cinema screens a board strategy game, may it be chess or backgammon as examples, Catan or Monopoly - something that your system can handle despite having to already deal with the VR set. The PC must run the VR, that consumes a lot of performance, and the game must live with the rest of system reserves. What works for oyu and what not this way you must check yourself. I can only recommend to try just every game that you have in 2D and that has no native VR support and where the tech demands are not that high that after running the VR set not enough performance is left for the game. Hexfield Cosims may also work well in Virtual Desktop on the movie screen. I will check that myself in an hour with WarPlan.

If you find that you can digest VR without getting nausea, then you can go to ordinary VR titles .

I only talk of games that I know in VR:


VERMILLION. Perfect for a nooewbie toi VR who is not certain about his vuklenrability to motion sickness, because it is absolutely calm, relaxed and extremely immersive at the same time. One should not feel any nausea in this. I mentioned it two or three pages before. That is THE IDEAL start for VR newbies!!!! I call it a must have, like Google Earth.
here: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...=235363&page=6
several posts and videos on top,in the mdidle and the blttom of that page.
I had done three paintigns so far, one was really good - anmd then I wa snot aware of the folder structure and accidentally deleted the full folder... Thats why I have not posted any paintings to boast... The software handles brilliantly, simply that. So very intuitively.
Get it, get it, it does not matter whether you think you can paint or not - just get it.

A-10 VR. No flightsim, has nothing to do with the Warthog. Superb laser-colt shooter, but you are free from excessive movements of your own position. I think it is the best game of its kind, I extremely like it, and it costs just 5 coins. Dont struggle too long with the leanrign mdoe,m its boring, the reuzglar game mdoes are different, all start slow - and end up extremely intense and dramatic. Simple concept, but splendidly executed. Get it! One of the most underrated and overlooked games in the VR genre. I cannot understand why this is not better known. I just dont get it.

Kayak Mirage VR. Looks great, and if you paddle with the correct technique, its quite realistic. But a bit thin in content. Some people however report they have mild nausea from the kayak bopping up and down on the waves. Still, I think it is an excellent VR demonstrator, and a good first shot for a newbie. Set all graphics details to max, if your system can handle it.

Subnautica: the mostc claustrophobic experience i ever had on PC, fantastic and intense atmosphere, truly frightening, but: intially not made for VR, and not optimsied for VR. The interface makes you realise that (needs gamepad), and some people report nausea when walkign instead of swimming. The devs say they feel not competent to code VR, thats why the successor had no VR version anymore. - Do not start with this, but put it on your later-list. It is very impressive.

Skyrim VR: different to Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim'S VR incarnation works very good. But when you are new and feel uncertian on your motion sickenss tolernace, save it for later, becasue the fact that it is a first person perspective in use is something that raises the challenge.

Assetto Corsa had VR added later. The menues are in 2D, gameplay in VR works flawlessly. AC Competizione has native VR support, and works very good. Raceroom has later added VR support, it works also flawless. I can fullheartly recommend all three for VR.


Dirt Rally 2 which is very intense and impressive in VR, but nonly when you are not prone to nausea, because it is a bumpy ride;

and ETS2 that looks really fantastic in VR and adds incredible cabin immersion. The night-day-cycles, weather, and cabins, as well as the optics/physics of the mirrors, are works of art. Works very good in VR.

Superb is VTOL, because it allows you to set your own speed at which you turn into a combat stunt pilot - or not. The experience is extremely immersive. Evertyhing, really everything if optimized for VR. EVERYTHING.

Whether your system can run VR AND Flight Simulator, I have my doubts, but in principle FS and VR are a natural pairing. If it works, this combo cannot be beaten by anything! Start wuthg small, open cockpit planes of low compeklxity, and see how your system handles it. I cannot fly the big Airbus an Boeings in VR for exmaple, my system starts to melt and stutter.

Derail Valley. Do yourself a favour and get this. It works well with the G2, and it is a gem of a train game. VTOL for train lovers.

Katana X. Japanese swords and flying fruits - got it? Simple and straight forward. I like it for its simple concept and good execution, and it costs just 1,60 Euros! Bought. Good training stuff to raise your nausea tolerance

Want to get a workout? Box VR. (Its no boxing simulator). Be aware however that sweaty face and VR headset do not combine well, due to lens fogging. BoxVR is an excellent sports app game, really, and you can do a workout with it for sure, but you want to use a strong ventilator, and a cloth around your face that soaks up sweat , a frottee headstrap or something and then the mask's rim on top of that. I tried several beat-the-beat games, this always was my darling, and by a huge lead. Top of the charts is Sabre, but that one I did not like. Box VR is for me. And yes, it will make you sweat and breath deep.

If sweating and lenses prove to be no problem for you: Thrill of the fight. Now, that is a boxing simulator, and a very original one. A work of love. If lens fogging is no issue for you, I recommend it. Videos do not do it justice, its better. Includes training in the virtual gym! No joke.

Later, when you found you have adapted to Vr motion and do not feel nausea, flightsims of various kinds may be somehtign for you, ionclduing dogfighting. The Warbirds VR Online series looks good, but I do not know it. The two Warplanes games (WW1, WW2 Pacific) I have just posted videos on. Its compromise between arcade and simplified sim with instant action - and no only short ammount of immersion! Nice snack for the quick break. just reduce control sensitivity in Pacific to minimum else it kills you. For what they are, they are really good. Can be flown wiht HOTAS as wlel, I think, but maybe that is overkill.

No Man's Sky works good in VR. My issue is more with the game design itself, its too boring after short time.

If the game is your taste, Elite VR. Works well in VR, but handles a bit complicated, but that is true of the 2D version as well.

Final Assault, a WW2-comic-style RTS from god-perspective. I posted a video a few weeks ago. Looks nice, handles great, and costs aorund 8 coins only. I recently posted a video about it. Dont forget to also zoom in closely sometimes to see all the many lovely details.

Pinball your thing? Pinball FX2 VR. Very, very good pinball, they look great in high-res VR like the G2, and now also support hand controllers. Its also a good starting game for VR newbies. Do not buy the newer Star War VR Pinball, however, that one works like brown stuff.

For a newbie, I would NOT recommend No Limits 2 Rollercoaster VR, the reason is self-expalnatory, I think. Also. Its, not really a game. Either you construct a rollercoaster in the editor, or you sit in one and do a ride. The experience is extrenely impressive at times, but its not really "gaming". More a sandbox for rollercoasters.

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I would love to recommend to you the following games, but for a G2 Reverb, I cannot, due to the previously mentioned handcontroller tracking weakness of the G2: Eleven Table Tennis is outstanding and one of the best VR titles I have so far played. The physics nail it, so does the extreme realism. Racket Fury: more action- oriented table tennis, a bit arcadish, and maybe due to that more entertaining for some, but the same problem with the G2. First Person Tennis: I had some wonderful online matches with it against other players, and believe it or not: if putting your heart into it and fully swing out your strikes, its closer to the real tennis than you can imagine, at least the techncial aspects. I loved it. That you cannot run back and forth in your living room like on a real court gets compensated for by three models to simauklte leg work and runnign, one of which I found to work extremely immersive and convinsing. Sweat and lens fogging problem applies, soutioin must be individually chosen,. I had solutions for myself. I am sad I cannot play Eleven and First Person Tennis anymore, they are xtremely well done simulators, some of the best you can find in VR. But not for the G2, sorry.

I take a break now and cry a little.

If you have it, Wreckfest. It has no native VR support, but I run it on the very biggets movie screen via Virtual Desktop, and since I do so, I relabelled it as Wreckfest 2.0 XXL. Its FANTASTIC, and one of the games that my system can run smoothly in this context. Whether yours can, you must find out. Its 2D, but on the giant movie screen, and that is a game changer already that is hard to be overestimated. In this way, this game gets enabled to show how visually beautiful and stunning it really is - you just do not see that on a normal small monitor.

Thats the titles all that I tried and still play in VR, I think. I had some stuff refunded, this I do nto oist here.

My best tip is: start with youtube and Virtual Desktop (and the moviehalls from the workshop, they are free except the biggest HIMAXX screen), and Google Earth. Check the post on the movie screens I did some days ago, page 7 of this thread.

[Skybird]

I just tried to play Armoured Brigade and the WarPlan games in Virtual Dektop on the big screen. Works perfectly, and smooth. Why would one want to do that? Because there are many games of this kind that have microscopic fonts and extremely complex and ill-designed menues and itnefaces, and sometime si find it hard to conme to a solution on screen that I actaully cna deypher the stuff. If you play it on a big movie screen 10m high and 30m wide, recognising details i no problem. Think of it as playing with a giant magnifier.

And how could I forget in the above list of games this: AirCar. I mentioned it repeatedly (well, all what I just repeated). Its free at Steam. It may be problematic at first for peopel pronbe to Vr nausea, so be careufl, but the vosual experience is so avbsilktuely imopressive that nobody can afford to not at least try it. Its not a game, more a tech demo, and a relaxed, laid-back experience. Just Blade-Runnering in an aircar through the streets of a nightly futuristic city. Every VR user should have tried this at least once. Its a visual feast.

Then I remembered that I have tested, years ago, Space Engine, sort of a planetarium software for the entire universe. Back then I did not get it running well in VR, but that may have changed, and the itnerface bakc then needed to work yourself into it. I mention it so that you know stuff like that also exists. Despite my problems, it gets very good customer feedback. Maybe I just dont know how to handle it well.


Edit:

I remembered another title that seems to have matured well in silence: Catan VR. Its the board game, playable against AI or MP, in a VR environment. I had just reinstalled it and played some moves, and I must say, its very good, visually implementation and handling are really good indeed. You sit at the table inside a hut or a japanese apaprtment, with your opponents, it handles and feels well, and it might be one of the best options for a VR newcomer who is not sure about nausea to familiarize himself with it. The interface for playing the game and dealing with its options, is ergonomically well-designed. And Settlers of Catan, well, either you like it for what it is, or not. I think its a very good board game. Not specifically designedf for WMR sand the G2, I found the handling flaweless. It works. However, it seems the expansions still have not be brought into this computer-version of Catan (the other 2D catan games have them). Multiplayer apparently can be played across platforms!

[Dowly]

Guess I should give some input on that motion sickness side of things now that I've used the G2 for a week or so.

I got it on the 12th, and spent the first two-three days just to get used to the software/app side of things (using VR desktop etc.) The first day I felt a bit sick to my stomach (I don't suffer from motion sickness usually), but that passed by day 2. Now, the real kicker (and a bit of insight in how human brain works) came when I tried my first game (Blade & Sorcery)!

Seeing your entire arms instead of just hands/controllers made my brain a bit confused for a couple of days. For example, if I was leaning at a table with my hands holding my phone in front of me and my eyes concentrated on the phone, I'd get this strange "numbness"/"unattached" feeling in my arms. I'm guessing my brain was trying to figure out if it was VR or RL, and I had to take a quick glance at my arms and wiggle them abit to sort it out.

Very strange feeling, I see my arm, unfocused, but it feels as if it's not mine. But it is starting to be better now.

Anyways, the most interesting part to me at least, is how easily that CPU we have inside our heads can be fooled. Gives a bit of a perspective to all those sci-fi shows and the brainwashing stuff in them where they keep someone in a virtual world without them knowing when they are really awake and when in a virtual world.

Not something I was expecting, but a wholly welcome perspective.

[Catfish]

^ wait until we wake up from this simulation we call world, in reality

I would like to play the recent version Rise of Flight in 3d.. but i guess i would fall out of the plane (read: from my chair) in the first few minutes

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ wait until we wake up from this simulation we call world, in reality

I would like to play the recent version Rise of Flight in 3d.. but i guess i would fall out of the plane (read: from my chair) in the first few minutes

I think it was in this thread and it was some of you who posted a link to some special chair made for
VR.

Edit
I found something I remember looked somewhat like the chair I mentioned
https://www.yawvr.com/
End edit


Markus

[Skybird]

When my father tried VR first time, he dropped over to one side, I had to catch him. But then, he was mid-70 then.

I was not that prone to VR motion sickness/nausea from beginning on, just in some situations. But these situations became more and more irrelevant, too. Today I do not get nausea at all, no matter what I play, racing or flying, and even if carrying the VR helmet for two hours.

Its like I said earlier: the brain may be irritated at first, due to different inputs form the inner ear (no movement) and the eyes (movement for sure). But it trains, it adapts, it "hardens" itself".

You just must no exaggerate it. When you start feeling uncomfortable - STOP. Do not force yourself, do not push it - it will only get worse. Else you may pay with very very severe nausea and ill-like-a-dog feeling for several hours, and even with some hours delay. This happened to me once when using a fairground attraction of truly diabolic nature, I described it back then, a hellish machine. I felt like needing to vomit and was so dizzy I could not stanbd, sit, wlak, crawl or lay still, and could not even lie flat on the ground without rolling over. It was very serious. I felt like that just once before, that was when as a teen I tried the only time in my life to drunk lots of alcohol, and over the next mornign and day paid a terrible price for that half a bottle of whiskey. Being young means being stupid.

Both lessons learned. Never got drunk again in my life. Never pushed VR beyond what felt comfortable again.

Start easy. When uncomfortable - stop. But try again some time later, dont be discouraged. Rise interval length slowly form time to time. The brain can be trained. The brain will adapt. Promised. The old ones may need more time than the younger, however. People used to monitor work may find it easier than people who never had something to do with computer games.

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On a sidenote, I am fuming. I today allowed my once-a-year Windows update by Microsoft. I usually block these monthly updates since I got the new machine in fall 2017. Today I allowed it, the yearly clean-up, if you want. Since then and the installation of 22H2 for W10, all games involving SteamVR crash after half a minute, due to steamVR itself crashing, when using VR. Not involved are programs that use VR without needing to run inside SteamVR.

I have some serious problems here currently. Thank you Microsoft. Reminds of why I usually block you and keep you blocked. I wish I would not have done the updating today.

I read that people who upgraded from W10 to W11 via Windows Update are even more heavily affected by Mixed Reality Devices crashing under SteamVR then. More people getting hit by this, I mean.

Never touch and never "update" a stable system. Shame on me. I know that with Microsoft the risk is high that updates often end up being downgrades, I posted on that often enough myself.

S##t.

[Catfish]

Once a year update? They do it each "patch-tuesday".
How do you avoid updating? MS (sic! Multiple sclerosis) does not allow you to block updates.
Imho the only possibilities are
a) you have a server-client network that allows a Wsus server to postpone or block updates for the clients, usually only works when you have a registered company and a permanent IP address
b) you have the enterprise edition (above professional and much more expensive) that allows you to completely block certain or all updates
c) you have the professional edition and de-install updates after installing, which is time-consuming, quite idiotic and hard to do; and even after this remnants of some update may still spoil some programs. And MS may still try to install this again later.

[Skybird]

1. You set your internet connection to "metered".
+

2. You use the Windows Update Blocker app. I have an old version, 1.5 It easily switches on and off WUS.

A few people back then reported that the announcement of W11 screen kind of broke it for them, they got upodated desopite these steps. So far, not for me.

Also, some people reported that the W11 announcement screen was followed by installing W11against their will, without their consent.

Updates for Windows 10 onboard security/AV guard still get through if you use it and have no separate AV installed (I have). At least so I read, but as I said: I use a separate software, Eset, and Malwarebyte.

Years ago, one or two more steps were needed to block windows updates, but with one major Windows update some details changed in the process and these steps were no longer needed/available.

I do not wish to go to W11, and my big fear was and is that it gets pushed against my will on my system.

That screen should never be touched, I once read at Woody's.

I also recall that since W11 came out, W10 only gets a limited ammount of updates only, certain categoiry of updates, while the regrets must be manually isnatlled form a different, manually accesses patch pool. The update today also wa slimited, only the 22H2 update and three NET-updates. Last time, last January, the list was a dozen entries long.

Sorry for being a bit vague, I just do not recall all these details I knew back then anymore, Woody's also does not freely publish and on W10 anymore, its mostly payware now and focusses on W11, and it is more relevant for business customers and IT admins. Security-sensitive stuff like banking, shopping, money-related stuff emails I all do via a second, separate system and then from linux, so I can afford to leave my W10 gaming rig a bit less "updated", security-wise.

You can also just delay updates by 5 or 6 weeks.

I plan to stay with W10 as long as this rig is running, will not move to W11 voluntarily before buying a new one in some years.


Edit. You made me nervcous a bit, Kai, and so i quickly checked the udpoate history. Indeed, over the whoe, past years, no windows updates, just two NET-updates that probabaly correspond to driver updates for some new game stuff. You know, when you install a game, sometimes it installs some of these, too, automatically, if you prevent it, you get issues sometimes.

[Skybird]

The best of both worlds?

How to combine the high resolution of the G2 Reverb with the precise controller tracking of the Valve Index.



-----------------

Update on my Windows Update issues, it ended with needing to complektely deinstall and reinstall all VR-related and SteamVR twice. After some logner time I got iot workign agfain,m but not without losses, for exmaple now the Pinball does not work anymore, will see SteamVR shutting down after 30 seconds or so. No system high load, high temperature, running out of RAM or anything.

If only I would not have done that stupid WU. I know that that is an invitation for mess and desaster, to let Microsoft mess around with my system.

That was the last WU I did on this system for the rest of its lifetime, if need does not force me to do another one. I am so tired of this waltz. Windows and Microsoft live only by Window's widely established software and hardware compatability, if that would not be so, most people would already have thrown it into the bin. I had a stable VR platform, and now no more. Thank you, MS.

Will now test more titles, namely the racing sims.

[Ostfriese]

I tried the G2 a couple of days ago. Unfortunately it shares the same problem as any other VR device: they can neither compensate for my bad eyesight (I'm severely myopic/nearsighted) nor do they work well with glasses/contacts (in the strength I require them). No matter what I do, I always get a blurred image.

[Skybird]

That is bad luck. I had 5-6 dptr. when i had the Oculus Rift and I used it with lenses additionally bought that had to be put into the headset, on top of its inbuild lenses. The G2 now I use with my normal glasses worn. The only disadvantage is that sometimes I must reset these glasses because they moved a bit and got so close that my eye lashes touch the glass, and that feels not nice.



--------------


Windows Update and SteamVR troubles:

Both Warplanes games work. Google Earth and Virtual Desktop works. Assetto corsa works. Tests continue.

[Catfish]

^^^@Skybird thank you for the update-blocking tips, only saw it today.
Still there are a lot of issues, and i then read your later post
The history of Windows is - among a few positive things of course - less and less control you have over your PC and paying for additional programs that were included before. I still wait for the time MS will demand money for using robocopy or any other shell command

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That is bad luck. I had 5-6 dptr. when i had the Oculus Rift and I used it with lenses additionally bought that had to be put into the headset, on top of its inbuild lenses. The G2 now I use with my normal glasses worn. The only disadvantage is that sometimes I must reset these glasses because they moved a bit and got so close that my eye lashes touch the glass, and that feels not nice.

I'm beyond -9 dptr. with additional "features" as well, anything more than 8cm away from my face appears blurred (Fortunately enough everything can be corrected with glasses).
The only way I could use VR would be specially made glasses (similar to reading glasses) or specially manufactured lenses to put inside the VR system, but they'd be very difficult to aquire and extremely expensive (on the far side of €2,000 - simply not worth it).

[Skybird]

More bad surprises.

Positives:

AC Competizione works, though launching it now is not without hickups.
Raceroom works.
ETS2 works.
Virtual Desktop works, but behaves differently and somewhat nervous on launch and leaving.
Vermillion works.
Kayak Mirage works.

SteamVR is far more intrusive now, no matter playing with its options.

Negvatives:

Wreckfest in Virtual Desktop mode on the moviescreen: a total disaster, it runs with less than 1fps per seocnd and is unplayable that way. VERY BIG loss. Totally unplayayable. Now I udnerstand why so many peope, said it does not work for them when I told them they should try this: I did not update Windows, they probably have.

Pinball FX VR 2 freezes after 20-30 second at the table. VERY BIG loss.

Air Car freezes after 20-30 seconds. Well, a demo only. But it worked before WU. EVERYTHING worked before WU.

The latter two fail due to "Unreal Engine is existing due to D3D devic ebeing lost, error 0x887a0007". I tried to update DiX, found it all is on verison 12, a seaparte uodate is not posso9ble, I tried a reinstallation, and it broke of saiyng I have the laets version. I ionstalled a new gaphics driver, 527.02. I tried two registry hacks, which i had to reverse, they did not solve the problem but once the freeeze happend, the freeze stayed forever, never returned to desktop after 10 seconds or so.

And now the big thing that really makes me fume:
Flight Simulator, Microsoft's own thing, freezes after a short time. I'm grounded.

If only, if only. If only I would not had run that dman Windows update due to vague, unfounded "security concerns". It worked all flawless and stable and perfect since one year, and alreadey in the four years before that.

I'm out of advice. It worked, then came Microsoft with its sh!+, and now quite some stuff is broken. Thank you, Microsoft. Lousiness as a motto. I red a lot abpiut others getting hit, and comapnies and corporations, this time the brown stuff hit me.

Heck, Windows Mixed Reality is also Microsoft's own baby!

Needless to say, I have the headset, SteamVR all at the same options like before.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^^^@Skybird thank you for the update-blocking tips, only saw it today.
Still there are a lot of issues, and i then read your later post
The history of Windows is - among a few positive things of course - less and less control you have over your PC and paying for additional programs that were included before. I still wait for the time MS will demand money for using robocopy or any other shell command

Windows 7 was good, even the Linux Buddha admitted he liked it. After that, Microsoft decided to dive deep into the feces, and deeper and deeper into it it dives, until today. Its a dangerous company and a crappy product portfolio at the same time.