VR the champions of the world?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Neal, I know you got yourself a Quest 2 recently, I would like to hear if you have anything worth to mention, any cautioning words or enthusiastic outbursts? And how does Yioutube work on it, good enough? My parents are old, but my Mom is still fit in her head, still things must be really easy in handling if its too complicated, then its all in vein. Also, is there the option to use sort of a webbrower by which you can access a TV broadcaster's public media library, for exmaple?

Hey Sky, yes, you can watch youtube and video with the Quest 2, but unless the content is made for VR, I think it's better to watch on just a monitor. And there are a few games and visual series that are enjoyable--I have not been keeping up with what's available lately. I like the Quest 2 mainly because they made it where the headunit has all the location sensors built in, so you don't need to place a bunch of stuff in the room. The resolution is good but not fantastic. You can connect it with a wire to play Steam games (maybe play some without the wire). It's fun, but more of a novelty than an everyday appliance for me.

[Skybird]

Thanks, Neal.

So I would expect the Quest 3 to have noticably better image quality, due to better lenses than the G2 and higher resolution than the Quest 2 (comparable to the G2), it should in total be at least as good as the G2, if not very slighly better.

G2 versus Quest 2:


You may want to check a (free) software named BigScreen. It includes a huge collection of places with smaller or bigger screens on which the desktop is mirrored, and other guests can be invited into these rooms to chat or view content together: classrooms, living rooms, moviehalls. The social thing may be uninteresting, but think of this: mirroring the desktop on such a moviescreen, for example, starting youtube and then have the content maximised to full screen on the real monitor means you watch that content in moviescreen format in VR. Or this: I play Wreckfest in this way, which ahs no native VR support. Its still 2D, but I do not play on a small montior, but on a screen the soze of a squash field! Visually, that is a game changer, even if just 2D. I do that a very lot via another software, VirtualDesktop, and even watch movies via DVD and bluray that way - on screens the size of cinemas screens.

I think that is absolutely fantastic!

I take from your words that the handling and launching of software and of youtube in the Quest is not overly complicated. I ask from the perspective of my old parents.

And do yourself a favour. Get Eleven Table Tennis. Best and most realistic sports simulation you have ever played, promised. Its surreal how good it is.

[Skybird]

Meta has introduced its anticipated Quest 3 headset to the public today. Visitors were able to check and play all functions and test 6 games for one hour per person. The feedback is extremely positive, a majority seems to think of this as a breakthrough.



Release date is Octobre 10th.



Preorder now is possible. I placed mine.

[Skybird]

Tomorrow I should get - with 2 days delay - my Quest 3.

Rumours are solidifying that Vavle is working on a headset like the Quest, too. I assume it will be much more expensive.

Meanwhile I found this.



I am especially curious for the Passthrough technology. It cannot be activated for just any title, but it must get hardcoded into every title. Two exmaples.

The first is form the Quest 3, so the room is shown in colour, and crispies and sharper than in the Quest 3. The guy first measures his room in, and then you see in sort of a demo what can be done with that data. Not that I play such games, but its interesting to see the possibilities.

The seocnd is from the Quest 2, so the room is in black.-white, and blurrier. This is a Beta fucntion of The Thrill of the Fight, the best boxing sim I have ever seen and tried (its a workout ). The fat green guy is not representative for the game, he is the lowest ranking of all AI bots. Thrill of the Fight 2 is in development, btw. Mind you again: the film is for Quest 2, not 3.





Obviously that was not in black white, I found a better demo video, its from the quest pro, passhtrough in colour. Its said the passthrough in quest 3 is even better.


I also plan to find out about cable-free airlink connection to my PC, and then going into the cinema like I do on PC, just stremaing it to the Quest while now being able to move freely in my flat, and sit where I want, not at the desk. Airlink, that is linking to PC without cable and so being able to run software that natively is not avialable for the Quest 3 (Google Earth, complex simulations etc)., already was demonstrated to even work with complex stuff like Flight Simulator 2020! Wowh. Just need to get it going. Airlink, I mean.

[Skybird]

I played table tennis again today! In my living room...!

Got the Quest 3 today.

Installation went without a flaw, I had prepared the software on the tablet already yesterday, and on PC (for Airlink streaming, untested so far). Last time I had an Oculus was the Rift, and I now come form a G2 Reverb (discontinued by HP by now). I had to access the WLAN, and then to link to the tablet. Scanning the QR code form screen did not work for me, like for many others, but manualyl typing in the codes worked flawlessly.

The hardware has a very good feel, the handles are heavy and like made for my hands, the feeling of the buttons and sticks is just - perfect. The headste is lighter thna the G2, the strap is to be repalced, but doe sits job meanwhile. The case again feels valuabvly, well-made. The box these three come in, is a luxury item almost, very heavy, build to last, idela to store the gadgets away when not in use. Very good first impressions, like I expected from MetaformerOculus. I liked the Rift back in its days, and its handles. This hardware even feels much better.

But when I first put the mask on (all conneciton and such is done form inside the mask), I was almost shocked, I did not saw this coming. The image quality is - well, it blows the G2 out of the water.. Absolutely stunning. No pixels. No Gorrays, no screendoor efect, not fresnel lense artifactsa - nothing, as smooth and clear the image is as if looking at a normal LCD screen. Next shock - it was not the usual VR darkness greeting me when putting the mask on, but there wa slight and colour - I saw my living room around me, surprisngly sharp where the tbalelmap lit it up, a bit granular in darker parts of the room (at time of sunset and overcast sky). And coloured. I could read book print, I could read my tablet, I could read the PC monitor. I could reliable grab things and even pince tiny things between pointing finger and thumb - the perception of depth works well enough. That thign even reocnginses my hands and fingers without holding a controller! I did not knew this and so I did not expect this. This was far more than what I expected to get: a secondary "junior" headset that is mobile and thus weak in power - in fact it almost outclasses the G2.

I launched the demo, the game witt that ufo in your room form the video above. I scnaned my room, that was already fun, sort of. An then the ufo landed, not on the floor, but on the bad, the elevated surface was correctly reocngised. Then the alien fuzzballs started to get all over the place, and they hid behind objects and furniture, I had scanned the kitchen as well and so I ended upo running aorudn in my flat, chasing little aliens, all the time I saw my surrounding and my furnitures and my apartment. Wowh! It dawned on my that this was somethign much bigger than I had anticipated.

And then I bliught Eleven Table Tennis, as you know by now, one of my favourites. The menu was reworked, and to my surprise I ther eis now an option for passtrough scneery, your room, that is. I picked that immediately, and really was blown awa ynext, there I was, with a tbasletennis table in the middle of my main room, and I coudl see my place and palyed table tennis in my place, and the feeling was perfect and the handtracking (the big archilles heel of the G2) was a dream, worked flawlessly, even in lower light conditions.

Its absolutely fantastic! I'm happy.

Also, being cableless now is a big, big liberation. PC not needed as long as you do not stream stuff from PC.

The German package comes with a free copy of the new Asgard's Wrath game, not already avalable, but I got my download copy reserved for free. Not my kind fo game nromally, but I will try it, the reviews are stellar.

There are some more games I will try with this new headset, and I will post updates on the experinces with them. Tomorrow I will try Airlink and how well PC-based VR titles work. I am very confident. Google Earth is on my mind of course, and stremaing from the Bluray playe ron PC and watching my movie in the big cienemy - but this time sitting anywhere I want in my place, feeling utmost comfortable.

So far, first contact with the Quest 3 leaves an utmost excellent impressions. I am all in. The o nyl disadvanatge is that the battery runs for 2 hours only, that will be helped with a better strip and additional battery, doubling this time to 4 hours then, but it is not yet available over here. I will not get the charger, its not needed, but an additional silicon frame for the mask's rims, and when availab le: a table tennis grip to give it a more natural feel.

Visually, the screens of these things now have left all the early beginning's probolems behind the,m , and the image quality really is excellent. The G2 has SLIGHTLY more pixels per ye, but it has a hotspot in the centre where oyu see sharp, and the image becomes blurry near the egdes. The Quest 3 is crytsal-sharp from centre to rim, all screen, and loosk as if it offered a higher resolution as well! Fresnel lenses versus pancake lenses - the last battle has been fought, the war is decided.

I'm happy and do not regret to have bought it. Not one bit. I am enthusiastic, to be more precise.

Some passthrough stuff:

Eleven (mind you, the room is real, no computer location):


Piano Vision (yes, I am still doing the piano!)



And the free game in the German combo, Asgard'S Wrath:

[mapuc]

I wrote earlier that I would buy a VR set-Well I haven't and the reason is that I'm suffering from Glaucoma and myopia or was it long sighted.

Would I have the full experience in using a VR set ?

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I wrote earlier that I would buy a VR set-Well I haven't and the reason is that I'm suffering from Glaucoma and myopia or was it long sighted.

Would I have the full experience in using a VR set ?

Markus

I dont know. The distance that these lenses calibrate to in these VR headsets, the distance of the image plane I mean, is about 60-80 cm, usually. This is so that people don't have to squint, because without these lenses their eyes would have to focus on an image plane 2-3 cm in front of their pupil. I cannot tell you whether or not it would be a representaive test for your issue, but if you reahc outh your arm, can you view your fingertips sharp and clear? If so it might be worth a try to test a VR headset. In VR, the eyes ALWAYS focus on one and the same depth plane, a fixed distance, no matter whether you look at somethign on your virtual table you sit at, or to the distant virtual horizon. Otherwise ask your optician or ophthalmologist. All I can say is the image in the headset is very clear and sharp. Man, no comparison at all to the Oculus Rift from 2017...

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I dont know. The distance that these lenses calibrate to in these VR headsets, the distance of the image plane I mean, is about 60-80 cm, usually. This is so that people don't have to squint, because without these lenses their eyes would have to focus on an image plane 2-3 cm in front of their pupil. I cannot tell you whether or not it would be a representaive test for your issue, but if you reahc outh your arm, can you view your fingertips sharp and clear? If so it might be worth a try to test a VR headset. In VR, the eyes ALWAYS focus on one and the same depth plane, a fixed distance, no matter whether you look at somethign on your virtual table you sit at, or to the distant virtual horizon. Otherwise ask your optician or ophthalmologist. All I can say is the image in the headset is very clear and sharp. Man, no comparison at all to the Oculus Rift from 2017...

Thank you for your answer it made me do a search and found this video
Have seen around 8 minutes and what I have seen so far is interesting.



Markus

[Skybird]

More tests. And light and shadow.
The shadow first, I could nbot get Airlink runnign so far, the headset finds the PC, but refuses to connect to it. The online talk and noise on this apparently widespread problem is much and loud, nobody seems to really know a cure, even more so sicne some player report (with Quest 2) that a working installation suddenly after months of fine work stopped working. I had thjat twice with the old Rift, after a Windows Update. That garbage from Microsoft easily ruins an awful lot in the background.
I will try next tomorrow with a cable and more care for the USB ports, a quick such shot a hour ago also did not work. Hm...


To the lights added to the collection, First Person Tennis is a blast, super crispy and - it also features a passthrough mode, a specila one were you stand in your room and in your wll is a moving wide gate that opens upo to the tennis court. Its hard to explain, but it works and prevents you from smashing your TV with that smashing serve or last second power return. Of the court you see what you must. The openign moves left and right according to your own running at the baseline. It is ver yimprotant in this game to have an idea or better now: an image of where stuff stands aroudn you, elkse you ploay with a mentla handicap, you hold yourself back becasue fo fear of derstroying somethign with your swinging arms. I play his game like aberserk, with full physicla power, not just dont-touch-Granny-too-hard shy wrist moves of the racket like you see so often in youtube videos. I hit the ball like it should be hit in Tennis, and you can take that literally. Sweat must be shed, else it is no tennis.



Racket NX is now "unleashed". In this 360° squash-like game, you turn around your own axis a lot, so the cables of earlier headsets are a real handicap, even if they hang from the ceiling. Now there's full freedom of movement, I let off steam. It really did me good! You have to really get into these hit-the-ball simulations, you must donate rela power, then you'll get something satisfying out of them. Lets get raw! If Squash and Breakout would ever had a baby, this would have been it. 2-player playing is possible.



And Vermillion, what should I say, I have easel and brush stand and pallet holder now in the middle of my living room, it fits completely naturally into my furniture. I just can't get over it. It's just crazy. Völlig irre!.

First Person Tennis


Racket NX




Vermillion

[Skybird]

Airlink is no thing that runs smooth all by itself. I finally managed to get it running, but I had to link via cable first, then in the cable options switching on an option that airlink should deactivate cable, and then suddenly the airlink link connection was there. But then the roomguard boundary marker was all time on. Something does not work as it should, and Airlink still does not link to the PC that it finds if not hanging on a cable first, which makes the whole idea somewhat pointless. The drivers of Oculus Rift always were a highly sensible affair back with the Rift, the headset broke down several times, always it was in the software something that did not work all of a sudden anymore. It seems they still follow that tradition.


I must say however, that as a standalone headset without link, the set worked flawlessly this afternoon.


I checked two cinemas in Virtual Desktop on PC and was shocked again hiow ver ymuch better they looked than in the G2, so smooth, smooth like silk, and clear in details and contours. And I though the G2 already were good!


I ordered the socalled Elite strap with battery. It should give a more comfortable hold, and doubles the running time of the battery to 4-6 hours.


Airlink will get solved sooner or later, one way or the other. But not tonight anmyore.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thank you for your answer it made me do a search and found this video
Have seen around 8 minutes and what I have seen so far is interesting.



Markus

I used such lenses in the Rift, they worked well for me, at around 6 diopters. In the G2 and now in the Quest 3 I wear the glasses, no problem. The Quest allows to alter pupil distance and distance of the lenses of the headset from your face, so you can increase the space inside the mask to get glasses under it.

[Skybird]

Hahahaha, forget Airlink. I got Virtual Desktop on the mask, I got the Virtual Desktop Streaming app on PC, and it linked up everything by itself almost, just had to enter my Meta callsign, and all is well and it works as intended. This way I set it all up within 2-3 minutes! Virtual Desktop is the way to go!

However, I need to check the Firewall, for proof of concept I had it switched off, it is advisable to find out how to just open the needed channels.

Google Earth: works. Streetview: works, although I meantime got it via Wander. Watching Bluray movies in a cinema like I want to: works. Box VR, my most favourite fitness app ever, works.


All is good again!
Since it was free, I got Bigscreen.This morning, to wake up properly, I had a first boxing rumble with a boxer who attacked in in my own living room, and so I felt again The Thrill of the Fight. Three rounds later I needed to go under the shower, heavily breathing... Passthrough, you guess it. That thing more and more reaches status of a killer feature for me. The rumble took place all over my room (which I saw).

And finally, FINALLY, a proper Golf game, Golf + . I did the tutorial, played the first two holes on the first course, and already was in love. It balances realism and fun and easy access so perfectly like I saw it rarely only in a game. Can be played with an easier or a more detailed interface.

Now, I have ticked off all boxes and question marks on my list. Everything works now, or seems to. Everything is a VR quantum leap better. No compromises I had to accept. Better a transition from an older something to a newer one cannot go. Next week the Elite strap with additional battery, I expect no issues, its the original (=expensive) one. Silicon rims for the mask, and later, when they have released them, a tabletennis grip and maybe a stick-grip for tennis, golf and kayaking.

Its probably not necessary to summarise my final verdict and give an end note, you guess it alraedy: I am fully convinced of this Quest 3 headset and it probably is the by far best headset on the market within the affordable price range (say below 1000 Euros). I am already in love with it. If you ever considered to go into VR and shied away from it due to the combined costs of headset and beefy computer hardware, the latter is no factor now anymore, and the rest is absolutely marvelous imo. This is now. And this is the best option so far for anyone interested to go into VR.

If you want to see something grumpy, two things.

First, the resolution of the coloured passthrough is visibly less than the usual working resolution, but I would not call it a dealbreaker, it isn't, and it really does what it should and does it well: you can read something on your Pc monitor, or a handwritten note, you can reliably pick up even tiny objects with your fingers, you see your room quite clearly, so obviously it must be good enough to allow that. Better light is always better, it allows higher ISO, so to speak. Sure, in the future, this will be improved in further hardware, but that is years away, somebody one day will improve it, no doub.

Second, the Airlink. Meta is brought to shame by Virtual Desktop here, it should apologize to customers, because I meanwhile read on the web that many people have problems with it, and many of those who got it solved, report often high latency. Well, via VD I just played a round of A-10 VR, a two-blasters-in-hands shooter, and it all was supermsooth and super-synchronised. Even if the airlink would have worked as advertised, to get there every time needs you to manually control screens and transfer control numbers from one unit to the other VD: have PC running, launch the app in the mask, and the PC desktop shows up in the mask and you handle it like the original on the PC monitor. In this detail, Meta has really messed it up.

95 of 100 points from me. For my use and my needs, this one is a winner.


Quest 2 - Quest 3 display comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfDm45du-2c

Golf +






Wander:
Titles like Wander or Wooorld! access the Streetview database by Google, allowing to play with it even when not having access to Google Earth (which is not available for the Quest 1-3). They do things slightly dofferently, but in principle they are Streetview in disguise.



Bigscreen:

[Skybird]

The socalled Elitestrap+Battery for the Quest 3 arrived yesterday. It repalces the somewhat provisional default strap.

The battery extends the live time by multiplying that of the standalone mask by two, give and take. So, 4-4.5 hours.

The masks sits extrenly good with that strap, and is easier to adjust and to tak eon and off. Also, the facial part sits rocksolid on your face, even if you moe the had quickly. The things alltogether is a bit heavier now, of course, but that is compensated for by a better balance. A wheel in the neck tieghtens and loosens the fit. Very well-thought out desiogn, and all silikon wher eit touches the back of your head. That is good to know, because I use the headset last but not least for quite physical and sporting purposes, and so loose quite some sweat.

The battery in the back gets connected via a short cable into the only USB-C connector. Now, there is two things to consider that are not ideal. The backsid ebattery will emopty first when you play, until it ha sreached nil and then the mask's battery takes over. I do not like lithium ion batteies being emptied to zero, I never do that with my abtteries and bike batteries, but chnage when they are down to 20%. Vice versa, when loadingkt he powerplug goes now into the back battery, and through it first the mask gets loaded to 100%, and then the rear end battery. Thats also what I avoid with lithium batteires, I do not charge above 80% or so. Having batteries like this altering between 100% and 0% shortens their longevity, it sbetter to have lithium batteries opertaign between 80 and 20% charging status. You can do this with the Quest 3 only manually by pulling the connectur plug between both batteries.

An alternative to this - quit eexpensive - pack is to use a normal powerbank and a sufficnetly long cable. You carry the powerbank in a small picket on your belt for exmaple, and arrange the cable so that it does not get in your arm's way. A cable with a USB-C plug at a 90° angle would be recommended.

The Elitestrap strap is also availabe without a battery.

Afte r ore days of testing I think of the Quest 3 really as a game changer in VR. You get the superb display quality, the movement independence due to no cable to PC, excellent hand tracking even without holding the controllers (just make sure your plac eis sufficiently lit), and the Passthrough, which I found to be available in more games than I expected. I still start to giggle when I play table tennis with the table standing in my room and on my balcony.

The Quest has some really good hit-ball-with-racket sort of games, and severla also well-done sports and workout apps. With one of these I cardiacally attacked myself yesterday afternoon, and after 30, 35 minutes I was worn out and done and swam in my sweat.

I got a small,lbrary of games, soem I knew form before, some were new to me, and I gave back just one, a lousy pool game, the metastore runs a policy comparable to that of Steam, giving something back just takes more time to process.

With the crispy display, I got myself also two pistols-guns-and-rifles games, and while you miss the weight of the weapons and the stability that provides, aiming with various visors works surprisingly well, with the first Rift that was an exercise in futility.

I havent played First Person Tennis sn etwo years, the game has quite developed and I have a fantastic time with it. Its one of those must-have games, better it does not get. Eleven and Racket NX also are fantastic of course. Long live cable-free VR!

Yesterday I saw a 360° video, beautiful natgure impressions form Austria in autumn, that guy films 360° opften in 8K quality and that really makes a diference (uusally, older 360° films are quite blurry), I provide the link so that you can chekc it out if you want. Note: there are TWO youtube apps for the Quest, Yotuube, and Youtube VR. To comfortably watch 360° via Stream, you need Youtube VR.

And the app Wander is a beautiful replacement for the absence of Googl Earth, and works as smooth as the Googole software does. I can only recommend it fullheartedly. With softweares like these, you can do real magic with VR. Magic. I swear it.

https://www.youtube.com/@KarolGazdikCreatorFromTyrol

This movie yesterday caught me with my emoritonal guards down. I stopod in all that beuaty that spanned out before my eyes, and could ntio beleive it and also relfetc about this modenr tehcnological mircale I currntl ywas expeirncien - that these thigns are possibel that we cna do such things. When i took off the mask after the film, I had tears in my eyes, emotional secuirity valves had opened up. Beauty can be overwhelming when it comes at this size.

[Skybird]

Cybrix is a mixture of the old Arkanoid, and Squasch, set in a Tron-like environment. As simple as the recipe and ingredients are, as addictive is the gameplay. Somehow I just have a soft spot for these racket-hits-ball things, as a young, when time allowed, I often went into the Wilmersdorfer Park in Westberlin, they had these slightly curved squash walls there, where you hit the balls high and they came back flat, and if you played them low, they came back higher. I hit tennis balls there endlessly, to the point of complete exhaustion, and when it went well, it was pure meditation, I could never get enough of it. That has not changed until today! I just love this kind of stuff. This game now is at first glance underwhelming, but so where the firts levels of Arkanoid, too, but the game adds more and more challenge and raffinesse the later the levels are that you qualify for. Also, the brickwall appears closer and closer, so your reaction time gets shorter, too. At first I found the paddle physics irritatingl, until I realised they were not totally physics-related, but copy the style in which the paddle in Arkanoid behaved.

Addictive! Simple idea, very well executed. Racket NX falls into this category, too, but is the game I like better, but that does not mean Cybrix is not good. It is.




And I had a wonderful tennis match with some gentleman from Canada last night, a bit older he was, though not as old as me, and he knew some playing tactics and was in general well off. It seemed we belonged both to the minority of oniline players who prefer the simulation to the arcade mode, it seems, and that is what adds so much variety to the ball exchanges. Its such a brilliant game (First Person Tennis), its surreal. Any VR headset owner not at least trying this, cannot be helped. Very good experience, very good ballgaming.

[Skybird]

I found another sports sim of the "take a racket and beat the crap out of that ball" sort of game, its simulating picket ball which is said to be the fastest grpowing sprts in the US. I can understand why, it was new to me. The graohcis of that game are simple, but effective. It cna be played 1-1 and 2-2, with a valaible number of players repalced with AI bots, which is needed since the player lobby is practically always empty. What I like in that agme is that the ball is so slow and drops so easily, neverthgeless you need good reflexes. But the tactics and speed does not overwhelm you like it might be the case with other VR sports games sometimes, especially the workout titles often have the commands flying at hilarious speeds at you. Real ickleball palyers teasdted the game and the oahsics are claime dot be relaistic. There are a rnage of quite well doen training options, some of which include Passthrough option for the Quest 3.

It does not look like much due to the playful graphcis, and cartoonish colours - but it has plenty of raffinesse under the hood. I will play this a lot.



I just learned that a Racketball sim also is in the making, a different studio and different looks. Probably an instant buy on day one, as far as I am concerned.


BTW, I have serious muscle soreness and an overstretched ankle after one week of 3-4 hours of sports gaming every day in the past week. Tomorrow I will force myself to take a break from sports games, though I am totally addicted. Give me a racket and a ball and I'll go crazy.





Again, do not judge this title by its cartoonish colour and graphics, the gameplay is very good imo, and 2-2 with the AI really tests my reflexes and forces me to make absurd contortions. 2-2 often leads to hectic frenzies.


I showed the new headset to my parents yesterday. My Mum totally flipped out and most urgently wants one for herself. Its ordered. And both my parents made one comment that should be interesting for those of you sufferign from Vr induced nausea and dizziness: my parents both were very prone to that in my earlier two headsets. But not in this one. Nothing. Rien. Nada. Nix. My Mum especially would have loved to play hours beyond the batterylife, without any symptoms of mentioned nausea.