[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Pez volador]

I have started the pre-war campaign, but already after Dec 7th 41 I have fired 6 torpedoes and all of them have failed, as if they go away under the ship without exploding. It is normal? I set minimal depth and impact pistols. They not hit the hull, I see the contrail go on behind, like the ship was a ghost. I have the mods in the order as the readme file, over a clean installation (Steam). Thanks a lot for your job

[propbeanie]

That sounds about correct Pez volador. You can refer to several readily findable articles, such as The Great Torpedo Scandal, 1941-43 (scroll down the page a pinch for the article). Suffice to say, the US torpedo club was even more hard-headed than the Germans, so it took them even longer to find the issues that were wrong with their "perfect" torpedoes... TMO by default has a realistic setting of what US skippers ran into when shooting at targets in later 1941 through mid- to late 1943.

There are user player options you can set on the Main Menu, Options, Gameplay Settings, and tick the "Dud Torpedoes" box in the middle column clear. That will influence the Single Missions, Quick Patrols and Multi-Player modes of the game. If you are doing a career, you have to be in port, in the Captain's Office. Look to the left at the brown & black wooden radio console, and click on it. You'll get a very similar "Options" menu with "Gameplay Options", and the same choice for "Dud Torpedoes" in the middle column. This particular setting can be different in each career you have, and does not affect the Single Mission and other modes of the game. If you play the German side, you also have to be in port and in the Captain's Office, but click on the 2nd drawer of the Filing Cabinet between the wall map and door to get to that Options menu.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Pez volador

I have started the pre-war campaign, but already after Dec 7th 41 I have fired 6 torpedoes and all of them have failed, as if they go away under the ship without exploding. It is normal? I set minimal depth and impact pistols. They not hit the hull, I see the contrail go on behind, like the ship was a ghost. I have the mods in the order as the readme file, over a clean installation (Steam). Thanks a lot for your job

Yes, that is normal. Propbeanie posted link regarding torpedo problems US subs experienced so I wont.

Setting torpedoes to minimum depth no longer guarantees a hit as before but does increase chance. Yes, should set them shallow in early war period, but they may still run too deep to hit target or trigger the magnetic detonator if armed. Setting to contact only in early war increases chance of miss actually.

These settings were implemented to reduce reliability of torpedoes and match history much as possible. Torpedoes were far too reliable before, was able to sink way too much tonnage in early war.

Dud rate was increased, based on angle of impact. A "glancing" blow will reduce chance of dud somewhat, while a standard broadside shot will drastically increase dud rate, especially set to contact only. With magnetic set, the dud rate tends to be lower as it masks the dud issue (as did in real life) since magnetic will set off torpedo before the impact pistol, esp if running deep and just below the keel.


Of course, with magnetic detonator run chance of prematurely explosion, especially with longer torpedo runs.

Frustrated yet? lol That was my goal, to simulate a inkling of frustration skippers did.

You're welcome, glad you are running (hopefully enjoying) the mod. Let me know if have any other questions.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That sounds about correct Pez volador. You can refer to several readily findable articles, such as The Great Torpedo Scandal, 1941-43 (scroll down the page a pinch for the article). Suffice to say, the US torpedo club was even more hard-headed than the Germans, so it took them even longer to find the issues that were wrong with their "perfect" torpedoes... TMO by default has a realistic setting of what US skippers ran into when shooting at targets in later 1941 through mid- to late 1943.

There are user player options you can set on the Main Menu, Options, Gameplay Settings, and tick the "Dud Torpedoes" box in the middle column clear. That will influence the Single Missions, Quick Patrols and Multi-Player modes of the game. If you are doing a career, you have to be in port, in the Captain's Office. Look to the left at the brown & black wooden radio console, and click on it. You'll get a very similar "Options" menu with "Gameplay Options", and the same choice for "Dud Torpedoes" in the middle column. This particular setting can be different in each career you have, and does not affect the Single Mission and other modes of the game. If you play the German side, you also have to be in port and in the Captain's Office, but click on the 2nd drawer of the Filing Cabinet between the wall map and door to get to that Options menu.

Thanks for the link.

[Pez volador]

Thank you propbeanie. I like the realism of this mod, but I just wanted to know if it was correct. It's a little frustrating, but that's how it really was. So I'll keep it that way and hope the US Torpedo Club fixes it.

Thank you Bubblehead1980, I really enjoy your mod a lot

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

No, I am not using vicker interior mod, since want to finish this career and then began a new one more earlier in the war, etc.

Just v2.0 and the patches.



The charge landed on my deck and then exploded, I thought that would be and instant kill, but no. I began to sink and possible when I should had the death screen, I had the CTD.



I am with a Gato class, even at 550ft, silent running and 1 knot, after a good evasion, the destroyer would get me and ping me.

Yep, I pretty much eliminated the "insta death" from TMO., sub loss usually comes from flooding/sinking beyond crush depth because system was overwhelmed, but a close charge can cause hull collapse, depending on depth you are at. A charge blowing up on deck will typically cripple in some form if not collapse the hull when at deep submergenc. Often will cause it to sink as you described. CTD likely has to do with damage model.
Sometimes, SH 4 does not like the changes I made to the damage model
lol.


550 ft in a Gato, man you were pushing it lol. I assumed your were in Balao. I never go below 415-420 feet in a Gato unless forced by damage/flooding. One well placed charge beyond that depth and you're usually done. Something I found in testing is SH 4 does model the enhanced effects depth charge shockwaves have at the deeper depths.



CTD may have been that your boat was actually destroyed by the close depth charge, but the sim did not "register" it to display to you on damage screen. After it catches up with this, can CTD sometimes. I've had it happen before.

[Rhodes]

Well, my record with a gato is 610 ft !


I think that the gato can go easily to 500-600ft, with out any damage prior to. And any well placed charge beyond that depth will give us one way trip to !

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Well, my record with a gato is 610 ft !


I think that the gato can go easily to 500-600ft, with out any damage prior to. And any well placed charge beyond that depth will give us one way trip to !

In V2.0?

500 ft no problem. While Gato's did not routinely operate at such depth, some were forced there and did fine. 600 ft is far too deep though.
I will have to check the files and adjust, Gato is not supposed to survive that deep.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

In V2.0?

500 ft no problem. While Gato's did not routinely operate at such depth, some were forced there and did fine. 600 ft is far too deep though.
I will have to check the files and adjust, Gato is not supposed to survive that deep.

Yes, i am using V2 and the latest patch.

Shifting the matter to real life, the Gato class never went that deep during ww2? At least on sub during a intense battle?

I thoughts were that, even not been able/or suppose to dive so deep, US subs manage to do so to escape their hunters, even if only a few times.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

Yes, i am using V2 and the latest patch.

Shifting the matter to real life, the Gato class never went that deep during ww2? At least on sub during a intense battle?

I thoughts were that, even not been able/or suppose to dive so deep, US subs manage to do so to escape their hunters, even if only a few times.

Well, US subs test depths were generally conservative for safety reasons, most exceeded them during the war, usually by 50-100 feet, a "safety margin" that is present in TMO submarines.


In all the patrol reports I read, the memoirs by CO, crew, and everything thing else, deepest I am aware that a Gato went and survived was about 545 ft and they were there because of flooding, not by choice. They were beyond depths measured on their depth gauges if I recall correctly and had to estimate depth by other means. They were most likely right on the edge of crush depth.



Gato's were rated for 300 ft, US engineers were conservative in their ratings, so it was found in combat Gato's could safely make it to 350-400 ft with no issues, although given the risk and unknown I believe most kept it under 400 feet, somewhere around 350-375 ft, as it would be seen as reckless to go beyond those depths on purpose. Balao class came about and while test depth was 400 ft, they could operate a 600-650 feet or more. I believe 675 is deepest one went during war time.

When I reworked the damage models in TMO, I accounted for all of this, since with the reworked damage models and depth charges, its no longer impossible to survive staying at a realistic depth as it used to be in TMO. Much as loved TMO, it was something that irritated me to no end how had to dive 500 feet plus to survive after reached mid war period. I made it in the update mods can stay at a realistic depth, take a beating and survive in most cases. Depends on skill and a bit of luck.

Damage models were reworked so there was a difference in the boats
and their capabilities/liabilities, as much as possible within the bounds of SH 4.


"100 ft" safety factor. Of course survivability at depths depends on the boat. Basically, your boat can operate 100 ft deeper than test depth with full hull integrity. Now, boats can go deeper of course, as you have found out.


Thing I discovered during develop of damage model and depth charges in V1.0 was that the sim does actually model the increased effectiveness of depth charge explosions at deeper depths.


Take a Gato at 300-400 feet, depth charge explosions somewhat close, may damage equipment , but no hull damage, no fatal blow.


Put a Gato at 500+ feet , same charge, exact same distance and position to sub...damage will be heavier, likely cause some hull damage. If you're at 500 feet and that close depth charge takes sends you hull damage to 20 (which can and does happen on occasion, if close), good chance within a few seconds your hull will collapse and damage will go to 100 and its all over. If this happened at 400 feet, low chance this would happen.

[Bubblehead1980]

USS Cisco SS-290 Third War Patrol Report and Screenshots Part I and Part II at this link.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=107786

[Bubblehead1980]

See link below.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...88#post2811588

[Canonicus]

BH..
Here's the link to the Pampanito three alarm surface klaxon sound mod.
Glad to help.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=6156

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Canonicus

BH..
Here's the link to the Pampanito three alarm surface klaxon sound mod.
Glad to help.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dow...o=file&id=6156

Excellent. Thank you! Will test out this evening.

[Bubblehead1980]

If you are assigned to lifeguard off Palau in March 1944 in support of Operation Desecrate I , just avoid the area and head on to Yap. Apparently there are too many ships in the harbor, which assigned lifeguard station is just few miles from. Anyways, really slows things down, if use TC causes CTD or when plane arrive seems too much for sim to handle. Most likely one of the random groups in harbor traffic file has a typo, spawning hundreds of ships. I will correct this when in port and release a fix. Just avoid and go on to Yap or go there to hit the marker and get credit, then proceed to Yap.