[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release - Page 265

Mad Mardigan · 11-29-21, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larrywb57

I'm using the 452_ MoonlightzSonarLines along with Preveiw 1.46 version. On the contact map F5 (nav map), it shows the ship silhouettes along with
vision range circle for merchants. The warships also have vision and sound detection range info. The mod is located in the AddinModzPak_Preview which is in the Extras folder, enabled by JSGME by copy and paste.

Good Hunting!

Ahoy, Larrywb57...

Thanks.

Knew that the 452_ mod, was in there... just couldn't recall the exact naming of the folder... that it was part of, right off.

As said, it had been some time since I'd poked around in there.

Of course, I unfortunately... lost My drive that contained all My mod repository of mods for SH3, SH4 & SH5, as well... & all the notes & such that I had, built up over time.. to resolve issues that can & do arise with bugs, glitches, mod workarounds to get 2 different mods to.. coperate with ech other & NOT... CTD the whole shebang.. (well, with some of the older SH4 v1.4 ones, think I had some for 1.5, as well...) to info notes and various info things, on history & such. *sighs & shakes My head* ahh well...

Any way, thanks for jumping in & confirming. Glad to know that My ol' rusty, dusty, beat up hd of a brain was recalling the info, if not 100% accurately... but close enough, for government work...

M. M.

M. M.

Imarider · 11-30-21, 11:31 AM

I looked at the AI_sensors.dat files at FOTRSU 1.46 and more difficult addon, there are max visual range with addon = 6000 km (in FOTRSU 1.46 = 9300), and there are no AI_visual_sensors.dat, where you can set vision at front and back, as i understand. Also, did you look at weather in campaign files? There are have to be some clouds on the sky, it can be adjusted with each campaign file or made with adding weather campaign file across all campaign.

propbeanie · 11-30-21, 12:13 PM

FotRSU does not have a front and back visual sensor. It also has a reduced number of AI visual sensors as compared to something like TMO and other mods. The game itself seems to have the visual sensor as a 360x360 device, that can see all the way around, and can apparently see below the water also, given certain settings used. Other mods have restricted the "viewing angle" for various uses, but our thoughts are that a person either passes or does not pass the eye exam in the military or Merchant Marine, and if they fail, they aren't there, so a Merchant can see just as well as a military man can. The height of the sensor and the "CrewRating" is where the difference is in FotRSU, in that regard. We have those set to influence the sensors used.

Depending upon which of the "more difficult" AI mods used (v1.26 has one, Preview has 2??), it might alter the AI sensor dat, it might alter the eqp radar, or it might alter the sim.cfg, or a combination. Each of the release versions has something a little different in that regard, with the next release being no exception, and having five AI add-in mods. Suffice to say, there are multiple ways to edit the AI response. Some are more specific than others.

As for the weather, the game is very strange about it at times, and defies all attempts to mod it. You can add "weather" to the mis files for specific mission files, but adding that to the campaign files can have an adverse affect. The weather does change, but is on a "timer". It also has a "random" chance for what it changes to, such that you might be experiencing ultra clear skies, wind at 2 knots, and after five hours of game time, it does indeed change, but now it is ultra clear skies and winds at 5 knots. It appears you are stuck in a weather pattern, but it did change. It might also be that the "chance" of a "change" came up with "no change", and you are indeed still in the same weather. In theory, a <Ctrl><N> key combination will "re-set" the weather, but again, it only induces a "chance" for that "change". Similarly, if you exit the game just before the weather pattern goes to "roll the dice" for that chance of a change, the weather clock then stops. When you re-load the game, the weather "clock" is re-set (similar to repair times for damage), you are back at zero time for that weather change chance to occur, and have to go through another cycle without a change. The same thing can happen with foul weather, where you might be in a storm for days on end, which of course, can happen in real life, but there is usually a bit of variety involved in such storms, of ebb and flow with the rain and wind. Another aspect apparently affecting the weather seems to be Time Compression, but that effect is not fully understood, if it's even quantifiable, since the weather in the game can be rather wonky... SH4 seems to be better than SH3 in this regard, but not by much, if it is.

Imarider · 11-30-21, 06:39 PM

Quote:

FotRSU does not have a front and back visual sensor. It also has a reduced number of AI visual sensors as compared to something like TMO and other mods. The game itself seems to have the visual sensor as a 360x360 device, that can see all the way around, and can apparently see below the water also, given certain settings used. Other mods have restricted the "viewing angle" for various uses, but our thoughts are that a person either passes or does not pass the eye exam in the military or Merchant Marine, and if they fail, they aren't there, so a Merchant can see just as well as a military man can. The height of the sensor and the "CrewRating" is where the difference is in FotRSU, in that regard. We have those set to influence the sensors used.

Well, i guess, i can't just add AI_Visual_sensors library from other mod or add it's content to AI_sensors? I don't know, how is more real, but first thing that comes to head that on front of ship sailors should be more able to detect you becаuse there are more attention anyway, more skilled people, i don't know...

Quote:

Depending upon which of the "more difficult" AI mods used (v1.26 has one, Preview has 2??), it might alter the AI sensor dat, it might alter the eqp radar, or it might alter the sim.cfg, or a combination. Each of the release versions has something a little different in that regard, with the next release being no exception, and having five AI add-in mods. Suffice to say, there are multiple ways to edit the AI response. Some are more specific than others.

I mean Preview version.

propbeanie · 12-01-21, 02:12 PM

Adding files directly from other mods, set-up as mini-mods (if you will), or a set of files with drastic edits, is exactly how we experimented with FotRSU. Environment mods affect the sensors, and is why we do not recommend noodling with them, unless you are ready to also noodle with sensors. You can really end up with some strange behavior if you're not careful, to where you might have super-uber sonar hunters that can't see an enemy BB 2500 yards off the port bow...

CapnScurvy was the one to actually "test" things by isolating the issue. If you want to find out about the visual sensors, you take out all other sensors involved in the test, such as blanking the sns file of a specific ship to only have the visual sensor. Set that ship standing still (not anchored) a given distance away from your submerged, standing sub, set to periscope depth, at whatever angle you want to test, whether bow-on, broadside, or whatever. Run the mission, and surface the sub. Do you get shot? Do they come after you? if they do, then they see you. Re-edit the mission. Either move the sub back, or rotate it, or whatever - but only one change at a time. Run the mission again, surface and see what happens. Lather rinse repeat... lol - Once you have the visual set, you could try night time, or dusk, or storming, or fog, or whatever. Run a TaFee by them, and see if they can see each other and try to "duke it out". You want a "balanced" response where you do not blind the enemy, yet you are able to "shadow" from a respectful distance. You also have to have "proper" equipment on the test subject, such as at least 5" guns for medium range visual, and AA guns for in-close, etc. DD / DE are the easiest to test (usually), because they will come after you. Not so with a lot of other "enemy" targets - some run away, some don't care.

After all of that, then you move to doing the radar or whatever, the same way. Hydrophone and sonar tests can get wonky, and very detailed, because now you want to be moving with your sub, and at various depths, to find the "detection" range, which usually means using the external camera to "see" when an un-anchored escort ship starts to move to attack you. You want to test that from various angles to get an idea of the "bubble" that they can "hear" you in. You should be able to come up from behind rather close, but not so from the front, etc.

A "controlled" environment is the easiest / quickest way to work, so we are usually building the test missions in the South Pacific, no where near a possible response from anything, or you "blank" the campaign, and do not load anything other than the Single Mission you are testing with. If you are testing for response (air, ship, whatever), then put that in the mission yourself. Very tedious, boring stuff...

Mister_M · 12-02-21, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Run the mission, and surface the sub.

Why not start on the surface ?

propbeanie · 12-02-21, 04:13 PM

If you start on the surface, the "enemy" most likely starts in an alerted status as the game finishes loading, and you're still not at the controls of the boat "Boom BOOM BOOMMMM!!!" "We're taking damage sir!" "WE HAVE HEAVY FLOODING SIR!!!" "Please stop shouting"... you die... lol. Starting submerged, you can test for Up Periscope, Radar Depth, Decks Awash, Blow Ballast, etc. and then see how long it takes them to calm down, if you survive long enough to dive again and observe further... lol

Imarider · 12-08-21, 02:59 PM

Hello, Propbeanie and all! As i read, historically there was 20-30% of duds. So, is it right and what addon mod for FOTRSU i have to install or just leave FOTRSU as is?

propbeanie · 12-08-21, 04:29 PM

Well, the failure rate was most likely quite a bit higher. A lot of the early trouble was blamed on poor shooting and therefore counted as misses. There are Japanese witness stories in some of the JANAC reports from the post-war era that tell multiple times of torpedoes under-running ships. Sure, the US guys were "trained" for sonar approaches, and those probably missed a good 50% of the time, but they also received training on periscope and surface TBT approaches, and all good officers were "wizzes" at math...

- maybe... lol

But if you have some of the FotRSU versions, you will find the AddInModzPak in the "GameFolder / Extras", and you can go inside that AddInModzPak folder, and drag or copy the mods in there over to the MODS folder to check them out. There is

650_LotsaDudz = Frustrating level of duds encountered in FotRSU - All torpedoes
650_MoreDudz = Basically the middle ground of dud amoutns for FotRSU
650_OriginalFOTRS_Dudz = The amount of duds originally in FOTRS (or TMO v1.7)

... available for experimentation. You only use one at a time, and all three have slightly different settings for the duds and rates. I have used the "LotsaDudz" quite a bit, and it might be a bit much for some folks. I had one patrol trip while testing where I shot 23 torpedoes, and only one exploded where it should have, and of course, did NOT sink the ship... too many other vessels around, so I could not use the deck gun to finish them off... I brought the last torpedo back for testing - at least, that's my story about it... lol - The original FOTRS had the dud rate higher than Stock, so that is the "OriginalFOTRS" mod, and the "MoreDudz" is in between the two. It can be fun trying to recreate things the way they were then, but it is also extremely frustrating to be playing a game, and come back without having sunk a single ship - which actually happened more times than not.

Zero Niner · 12-09-21, 10:36 PM

Just a quick post to report that I installed Webster's 300' Underwater Visibility Mod for 1.5 on top of FORTSU v1.46 and it appears to be working with no problems.

Mad Mardigan · 12-10-21, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Just a quick post to report that I installed Webster's 300' Underwater Visibility Mod for 1.5 on top of FORTSU v1.46 and it appears to be working with no problems.

M. M.

Zero Niner · 12-10-21, 08:28 AM

Also FJB Camera Mod for GFO v1.1 appears to play nicely as well.

fitzcarraldo · 12-10-21, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Also FJB Camera Mod for GFO v1.1 appears to play nicely as well.

Warning: optics mods could change measurements trough scopes and TBT. I would to use a reduced scope (as TMO BH) in FOTRSU but that changes the cameras.dat file and then the accuracy of the optics.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

torpedobait · 12-10-21, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Just a quick post to report that I installed Webster's 300' Underwater Visibility Mod for 1.5 on top of FORTSU v1.46 and it appears to be working with no problems.

Yes, I've been using it since I first loaded FOTRSU several years ago, I'd guess. Have never had a hitch in any version since (that I know of).

Imarider · 12-11-21, 08:24 PM

The question about elevation and bearing parameters in sensors.dat, also minimum range. There are some mods, where those parameters didn't touched, is it just because have no attention on it or those parameters someway do in other files? I'm trying to find any info about this and see that it was very important historically. And if it have to be set, may be someone know about any sources in internet?

Also, i have adjusted visual_sensors.dat file for FOTRSU with Nippon Maru and Nippon Kaigun, if someone interested on it, i'll give a link.

And, for sure, it's a matter of taste, Real Environment looks very good, but too much colored for me, i have installed ISE Realistic Colors submod and got very nice result, may be there are will be nice slightly change water transparency. Don't think it will have great influence on sensors.

11-30-21, 11:31 AM	#3962
Imarider Mate Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 51 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	I looked at the AI_sensors.dat files at FOTRSU 1.46 and more difficult addon, there are max visual range with addon = 6000 km (in FOTRSU 1.46 = 9300), and there are no AI_visual_sensors.dat, where you can set vision at front and back, as i understand. Also, did you look at weather in campaign files? There are have to be some clouds on the sky, it can be adjusted with each campaign file or made with adding weather campaign file across all campaign. Last edited by Imarider; 11-30-21 at 11:40 AM.

11-30-21, 12:13 PM	#3963
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,735 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	FotRSU does not have a front and back visual sensor. It also has a reduced number of AI visual sensors as compared to something like TMO and other mods. The game itself seems to have the visual sensor as a 360x360 device, that can see all the way around, and can apparently see below the water also, given certain settings used. Other mods have restricted the "viewing angle" for various uses, but our thoughts are that a person either passes or does not pass the eye exam in the military or Merchant Marine, and if they fail, they aren't there, so a Merchant can see just as well as a military man can. The height of the sensor and the "CrewRating" is where the difference is in FotRSU, in that regard. We have those set to influence the sensors used. Depending upon which of the "more difficult" AI mods used (v1.26 has one, Preview has 2??), it might alter the AI sensor dat, it might alter the eqp radar, or it might alter the sim.cfg, or a combination. Each of the release versions has something a little different in that regard, with the next release being no exception, and having five AI add-in mods. Suffice to say, there are multiple ways to edit the AI response. Some are more specific than others. As for the weather, the game is very strange about it at times, and defies all attempts to mod it. You can add "weather" to the mis files for specific mission files, but adding that to the campaign files can have an adverse affect. The weather does change, but is on a "timer". It also has a "random" chance for what it changes to, such that you might be experiencing ultra clear skies, wind at 2 knots, and after five hours of game time, it does indeed change, but now it is ultra clear skies and winds at 5 knots. It appears you are stuck in a weather pattern, but it did change. It might also be that the "chance" of a "change" came up with "no change", and you are indeed still in the same weather. In theory, a <Ctrl><N> key combination will "re-set" the weather, but again, it only induces a "chance" for that "change". Similarly, if you exit the game just before the weather pattern goes to "roll the dice" for that chance of a change, the weather clock then stops. When you re-load the game, the weather "clock" is re-set (similar to repair times for damage), you are back at zero time for that weather change chance to occur, and have to go through another cycle without a change. The same thing can happen with foul weather, where you might be in a storm for days on end, which of course, can happen in real life, but there is usually a bit of variety involved in such storms, of ebb and flow with the rain and wind. Another aspect apparently affecting the weather seems to be Time Compression, but that effect is not fully understood, if it's even quantifiable, since the weather in the game can be rather wonky... SH4 seems to be better than SH3 in this regard, but not by much, if it is. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-01-21, 02:12 PM	#3965
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,735 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Adding files directly from other mods, set-up as mini-mods (if you will), or a set of files with drastic edits, is exactly how we experimented with FotRSU. Environment mods affect the sensors, and is why we do not recommend noodling with them, unless you are ready to also noodle with sensors. You can really end up with some strange behavior if you're not careful, to where you might have super-uber sonar hunters that can't see an enemy BB 2500 yards off the port bow... CapnScurvy was the one to actually "test" things by isolating the issue. If you want to find out about the visual sensors, you take out all other sensors involved in the test, such as blanking the sns file of a specific ship to only have the visual sensor. Set that ship standing still (not anchored) a given distance away from your submerged, standing sub, set to periscope depth, at whatever angle you want to test, whether bow-on, broadside, or whatever. Run the mission, and surface the sub. Do you get shot? Do they come after you? if they do, then they see you. Re-edit the mission. Either move the sub back, or rotate it, or whatever - but only one change at a time. Run the mission again, surface and see what happens. Lather rinse repeat... lol - Once you have the visual set, you could try night time, or dusk, or storming, or fog, or whatever. Run a TaFee by them, and see if they can see each other and try to "duke it out". You want a "balanced" response where you do not blind the enemy, yet you are able to "shadow" from a respectful distance. You also have to have "proper" equipment on the test subject, such as at least 5" guns for medium range visual, and AA guns for in-close, etc. DD / DE are the easiest to test (usually), because they will come after you. Not so with a lot of other "enemy" targets - some run away, some don't care. After all of that, then you move to doing the radar or whatever, the same way. Hydrophone and sonar tests can get wonky, and very detailed, because now you want to be moving with your sub, and at various depths, to find the "detection" range, which usually means using the external camera to "see" when an un-anchored escort ship starts to move to attack you. You want to test that from various angles to get an idea of the "bubble" that they can "hear" you in. You should be able to come up from behind rather close, but not so from the front, etc. A "controlled" environment is the easiest / quickest way to work, so we are usually building the test missions in the South Pacific, no where near a possible response from anything, or you "blank" the campaign, and do not load anything other than the Single Mission you are testing with. If you are testing for response (air, ship, whatever), then put that in the mission yourself. Very tedious, boring stuff... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-02-21, 04:13 PM	#3967
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,735 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	If you start on the surface, the "enemy" most likely starts in an alerted status as the game finishes loading, and you're still not at the controls of the boat "Boom BOOM BOOMMMM!!!" "We're taking damage sir!" "WE HAVE HEAVY FLOODING SIR!!!" "Please stop shouting"... you die... lol. Starting submerged, you can test for Up Periscope, Radar Depth, Decks Awash, Blow Ballast, etc. and then see how long it takes them to calm down, if you survive long enough to dive again and observe further... lol __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-08-21, 04:29 PM	#3969
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,735 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	Well, the failure rate was most likely quite a bit higher. A lot of the early trouble was blamed on poor shooting and therefore counted as misses. There are Japanese witness stories in some of the JANAC reports from the post-war era that tell multiple times of torpedoes under-running ships. Sure, the US guys were "trained" for sonar approaches, and those probably missed a good 50% of the time, but they also received training on periscope and surface TBT approaches, and all good officers were "wizzes" at math... - maybe... lol But if you have some of the FotRSU versions, you will find the AddInModzPak in the "GameFolder / Extras", and you can go inside that AddInModzPak folder, and drag or copy the mods in there over to the MODS folder to check them out. There is 650_LotsaDudz = Frustrating level of duds encountered in FotRSU - All torpedoes 650_MoreDudz = Basically the middle ground of dud amoutns for FotRSU 650_OriginalFOTRS_Dudz = The amount of duds originally in FOTRS (or TMO v1.7) ... available for experimentation. You only use one at a time, and all three have slightly different settings for the duds and rates. I have used the "LotsaDudz" quite a bit, and it might be a bit much for some folks. I had one patrol trip while testing where I shot 23 torpedoes, and only one exploded where it should have, and of course, did NOT sink the ship... too many other vessels around, so I could not use the deck gun to finish them off... I brought the last torpedo back for testing - at least, that's my story about it... lol - The original FOTRS had the dud rate higher than Stock, so that is the "OriginalFOTRS" mod, and the "MoreDudz" is in between the two. It can be fun trying to recreate things the way they were then, but it is also extremely frustrating to be playing a game, and come back without having sunk a single ship - which actually happened more times than not. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

12-08-21, 02:59 PM	#3968
Imarider Mate Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 51 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	Hello, Propbeanie and all! As i read, historically there was 20-30% of duds. So, is it right and what addon mod for FOTRSU i have to install or just leave FOTRSU as is?

12-09-21, 10:36 PM	#3970
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,032 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Just a quick post to report that I installed Webster's 300' Underwater Visibility Mod for 1.5 on top of FORTSU v1.46 and it appears to be working with no problems.

12-10-21, 08:28 AM	#3972
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,032 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Also FJB Camera Mod for GFO v1.1 appears to play nicely as well.

12-11-21, 08:24 PM	#3975
Imarider Mate Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 51 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	The question about elevation and bearing parameters in sensors.dat, also minimum range. There are some mods, where those parameters didn't touched, is it just because have no attention on it or those parameters someway do in other files? I'm trying to find any info about this and see that it was very important historically. And if it have to be set, may be someone know about any sources in internet? Also, i have adjusted visual_sensors.dat file for FOTRSU with Nippon Maru and Nippon Kaigun, if someone interested on it, i'll give a link. And, for sure, it's a matter of taste, Real Environment looks very good, but too much colored for me, i have installed ISE Realistic Colors submod and got very nice result, may be there are will be nice slightly change water transparency. Don't think it will have great influence on sensors.