When to give up surface attacks

07-05-14, 02:39 AM

Ahoi!
So my question would be what is the date when it's time to cease conducting night surface attacks against convoys due to enemy radar activity. In my current career it's October 1941 and escorts are almost always detecting my presence at night even in stormy weather so I really mean abandoning the surface runs. I wonder when was the latest occasion in the war when you did manage to make a classic early-war surface attack on an escorted convoy without getting detected by radar.
Thanks for your answers!

RConch · 07-05-14, 07:15 AM

The first thing I need to know is how many escorts are with the convoy and do they all have radar?
I have been successful if there are only four escorts to the convoy, two on the beam and one each front and rear-look for the times, as you study them, when they swing out and move away from the convoy on a sweep.
You better be decks awash when you move in.

If more than two on the beam with radar, I back off.

I can't say there is any date when it becomes almost impossible to attack under 4000m on the surface at night. Each convoy is different, if it is too dangerous, I wait for the next one.

maillemaker · 07-05-14, 10:19 AM

Generally speaking, I never attack on the surface.

I think I've made a couple surface attacks in 1939 or 1940 when merchants are not armed, or in very bad weather.

But once the merchants have guns (1941), it becomes suicide to attack on the surface, because once you are detected they will light you up with spotlights and then everyone in the convoy with a gun will start shooting it at you.

My preferred method of attack is to intercept the convoy ahead, slide past the lead escort at silent speed, then wait and maneuver until the convoy passes over the top of me. I mark myself in between two columns and fire fore and aft tubs as targets pass by. Typically I only shoot at the columns directly in front of and behind me, so I can't miss. Unless something is particularly juicy a column over then I might.

I secure from silent running as soon as the shooting starts, so my guys can reload 2 or 3 shots more as more targets parade past me. Usually I can rip the convoy from stem to stern before the escorts figure out the fox is in the middle of the henhouse and it's time to dive.

However, once hedgehogs make the scene, it's best to abandon convoy attacks from within the convoy and fire from 5000+ meters away with pattern running torpedoes.

Unless you can lure the escorts away and kill them with homing torpedoes.

Steve

Tupolev · 07-05-14, 01:03 PM

This is one of the main reasons I've stuck with NYGM. I've done Kretschmer style attacks (minding my speed, aspect and decks awash) in mid 1940. Even shooting from outside, I've successfully closed under 1000m and evaded on the surface. This was in IIs
and VIIs.

I'm late 1941 now and hoping for some wolf packs to draw off some escorts because solo convoy attacks are starting to only be successful submerged.

The key to surface attacks is keeping bow on to the closest contact and going slow. Speed will kill you...

07-05-14, 02:39 AM	#1
allievo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	When to give up surface attacks Ahoi! So my question would be what is the date when it's time to cease conducting night surface attacks against convoys due to enemy radar activity. In my current career it's October 1941 and escorts are almost always detecting my presence at night even in stormy weather so I really mean abandoning the surface runs. I wonder when was the latest occasion in the war when you did manage to make a classic early-war surface attack on an escorted convoy without getting detected by radar. Thanks for your answers!

07-05-14, 07:15 AM	#2
RConch Captain Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: No. Virginia Posts: 618 Downloads: 503 Uploads: 0	The first thing I need to know is how many escorts are with the convoy and do they all have radar? I have been successful if there are only four escorts to the convoy, two on the beam and one each front and rear-look for the times, as you study them, when they swing out and move away from the convoy on a sweep. You better be decks awash when you move in. If more than two on the beam with radar, I back off. I can't say there is any date when it becomes almost impossible to attack under 4000m on the surface at night. Each convoy is different, if it is too dangerous, I wait for the next one. __________________ "Noch und Noch" Prowling the Nord Atlantik with GWX 3.0.

07-05-14, 10:19 AM	#3
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Generally speaking, I never attack on the surface. I think I've made a couple surface attacks in 1939 or 1940 when merchants are not armed, or in very bad weather. But once the merchants have guns (1941), it becomes suicide to attack on the surface, because once you are detected they will light you up with spotlights and then everyone in the convoy with a gun will start shooting it at you. My preferred method of attack is to intercept the convoy ahead, slide past the lead escort at silent speed, then wait and maneuver until the convoy passes over the top of me. I mark myself in between two columns and fire fore and aft tubs as targets pass by. Typically I only shoot at the columns directly in front of and behind me, so I can't miss. Unless something is particularly juicy a column over then I might. I secure from silent running as soon as the shooting starts, so my guys can reload 2 or 3 shots more as more targets parade past me. Usually I can rip the convoy from stem to stern before the escorts figure out the fox is in the middle of the henhouse and it's time to dive. However, once hedgehogs make the scene, it's best to abandon convoy attacks from within the convoy and fire from 5000+ meters away with pattern running torpedoes. Unless you can lure the escorts away and kill them with homing torpedoes. Steve

07-05-14, 01:03 PM	#4
Tupolev Hauptman Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: FL410 Posts: 174 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	This is one of the main reasons I've stuck with NYGM. I've done Kretschmer style attacks (minding my speed, aspect and decks awash) in mid 1940. Even shooting from outside, I've successfully closed under 1000m and evaded on the surface. This was in IIs and VIIs. I'm late 1941 now and hoping for some wolf packs to draw off some escorts because solo convoy attacks are starting to only be successful submerged. The key to surface attacks is keeping bow on to the closest contact and going slow. Speed will kill you...