Large Neutral Convoy = Paydirt!

[frau kaleun]

IIRC the US Navy started to escort Atlantic convoys in late 1941 after the drafting of the Atlantic Charter. In fact I'm pretty sure the Reuben James was on escort duty when she was sunk by Topp's boat in Oct '41, and she was the first US Navy ship lost in the war.

[Exakt]

The US weren't in an open war with Germany until they went into war with Japan, but yes, they were in the battle of the Atlantic since September 1941, as my previous post shows.

[Jimbuna]

Without delving into my books or bookmarked links, FDR kept pushing the area of US protection eastward and whilst the US was not officially at war yet, they gave a guarantee of safe passage to the merchants and eventually instructed their warships to attack if they or their charges were threatened.

Don't anyone forget the Canadians stood by the UK long before the US declared war.

IMHO FDR was the best American President in terms of friendship towards the UK....without him and his efforts to change the hearts and minds of the US people, we'd have been sorely stretched and may not even have survived as long as we did prior to America joining in the hostilities.

Without a shadow of a doubt, America was indeed the 'Arsenal Of Democracy'.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Don't anyone forget the Canadians stood by the UK long before the US declared war.

From what I have read the contribution made by the Canadians was nothing short of extraordinary, I don't think they had much of a navy to speak of in 1939 but apparently they ended up providing a substantial portion of the men and ships involved when all was said and done.

[Exakt]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Don't anyone forget the Canadians stood by the UK long before the US declared war.

I haven't forgotten them, since I am a Canadian myself, but at the beginning of WWII, we had a meager military navy (RCN) and also, we were still using the same ensign as the British back then, so it is easy to think that a ship is British. By the end of the Battle of the Atlantic (1939-1945), the RCN was the primary navy in the northwest sector of the Atlantic Ocean and was responsible for the safe escort of innumerable convoys and the destruction of many U-boats — an anti-submarine capability that the RCN would build upon during the post-war. By the outbreak of war in September 1939, the RCN still had only six destroyers and a handful of smaller ships. Also, a lot of merchants gave their lives, since Canada had the 2nd world's biggest merchant navy in WWII.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Exakt

I haven't forgotten them, since I am a Canadian myself, but at the beginning of WWII, we had a meager military navy (RCN) and also, we were still using the same ensign as the British back then, so it is easy to think that a ship is British. By the end of the Battle of the Atlantic (1939-1945), the RCN was the primary navy in the northwest sector of the Atlantic Ocean and was responsible for the safe escort of innumerable convoys and the destruction of many U-boats — an anti-submarine capability that the RCN would build upon during the post-war. By the outbreak of war in September 1939, the RCN still had only six destroyers and a handful of smaller ships. Also, a lot of merchants gave their lives, since Canada had the 2nd world's biggest merchant navy in WWII.

So true....it is also factual that the Canadians were often treated as the poor relation by the UK and US in terms of the release of vessels and modified/newly available equipment.

[Exakt]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So true....it is also factual that the Canadians were often treated as the poor relation by the UK and US in terms of the release of vessels and modified/newly available equipment.

True, and somewhat still true, the last subs we have bought are old UK diesel subs, the HMCS Chicoutimi, within a few weeks of its delivery had encountered some issues. After the repairs, the Chicoutimi was decommissionned. But one thing still is true, we still have one of the best anti-submarine warfare navies there is. We often train in such scenarios with the US and we VERY OFTEN beat their subs or beat them to it (when they use one of theirs as the "target" who is a threat to North America).

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Exakt

True, and somewhat still true, the last subs we have bought are old UK diesel subs, the HMCS Chicoutimi, within a few weeks of its delivery had encountered some issues. After the repairs, the Chicoutimi was decommissionned. But one thing still is true, we still have one of the best anti-submarine warfare navies there is. We often train in such scenarios with the US and we VERY OFTEN beat their subs or beat them to it (when they use one of theirs as the "target" who is a threat to North America).

I remember there was one diesel sub you purchased off us that experienced a fire whilst transitting on the surface....tragically one of the Canadian crew lost their life as a consequence

[Exakt]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I remember there was one diesel sub you purchased off us that experienced a fire whilst transitting on the surface....tragically one of the Canadian crew lost their life as a consequence

yeap, that was the Chicoutimi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Ch..._%28SSK_879%29

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Exakt

yeap, that was the Chicoutimi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Ch..._%28SSK_879%29

That was definitely most unfourtanate

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well, I guess you learn something new every day. Didn't know about the USN's involvement in the early war, thanks for the info.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Exakt

...we still have one of the best anti-submarine warfare navies there is. We often train in such scenarios with the US and we VERY OFTEN beat their subs or beat them to it ...

I remember watching an interview with a Canadian naval officer shortly after we'd purchased those three Upholder-Class subs. He explained that the U.S.N. always requested the Canadian subs for training exercises with their ASW forces because the diesel boats much stealthier then the American nuclear subs.

When the reporter asked him if a Canadian sub had ever sunk an American carrier in exercises, he gave a huge beaming grin, and after a bit of a pause said that he was not at liberty to answer that question.

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

Well, I guess you learn something new every day. Didn't know about the USN's involvement in the early war, thanks for the info.

Also, the U.S.N. made a habit of broadcasting un-enciphered contact reports of any U-Boats they sighted - well before they had become involved in WWII. Technically, this was not a breach of their neutrality, but it sure was useful information for the allies.