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Old 04-18-22, 05:18 AM   #16
astvitaliy1982
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Believe me, I do not condemn the intentions of this action in any way. The forum participant expressed his attitude to this trouble as a real, caring and sympathetic person. And that's right.
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Old 04-18-22, 05:22 AM   #17
Onkel Neal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astvitaliy1982 View Post
Let me comment on the Ukrainian flag on the Subsim logo.

I, as a forum participant not from America or Europe, see a certain amount of cunning and populism in this.
This act is not fair to the citizens of Ukraine. If Subsim supported ending the war in Ukraine,
then the flag of this country on the logo would have been on the site for about 8 years.

Quote from Onkel Neal - "... because I support stopping the war and killing in Ukraine"

Because that's how much the war is going on in this country.
And hanging the flag on the logo right now, when Russia has entered this conflict, is rather illogical and incomprehensible ...
Based on the wishes of Onkel Neal.

No sane and normal person supports war in ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD.
But I don't remember that there were other flags on Subsim's website...

Based on this logic, it would be possible to hang the flags of the DNR / LNR and Ukraine on the logo, it would even
more correctly. Then it would be really clear that the Subsim website is against the war in Ukraine. because
CITIZENS of Ukraine are dying in this conflict, albeit under different flags. I am silent already about peaceful people.

But attaching the yellow-blue flag, this site, right now, (after Russia entered this conflict)
supports a certain side, in this case Ukraine. This is what it looks like for everyone.

The Subsim site was not political... we are all united by the love of the game and the story. But not for politics at the moment

so those who know will understand.

Thank you)
That's a fair and valid criticism, there is a multitude of bad actors and an abundance of injustice and conflict in the world. In this case involving tanks and artillery destroying whole cities and thousands of people I feel the situation has passed a point where I can remain silent.
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Old 04-18-22, 06:37 AM   #18
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As far as i remember the flag of any country being in distress or being sympathized with has been displayed here, much to the liking of the people visiting.
Now Ukraine, its cities and people are being destroyed by a megalomaniac dictator, how should one NOT SHOW SOLIDARITY HERE?

If you say this is wrong because the ukrainian flag should have been shown earlier here since Putin has been causing unrest and destruction in the Donbas regions earlier, or when he was occupying the Krim with his innocent green men and shooting down a civilian plane, you are of course right.

You should not criticise showing the Ukrainian flag, as i wrote further north there are a lot of countries openly showing sympathy for Ukraine. Putin destroys a whole country and the russian culture, and the world is not sure whether this can be forgiven. If there is someone who can stop Putin it is not Tchaikovski and Tolstoj.
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Old 04-18-22, 07:29 AM   #19
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astvitaliy1982 makes a number of good points. Being from Donetsk, you would have a better understanding of things than most of us who reside elsewhere. To be fair, those of us who reside in America only know what is being reported. Therefore, our understanding of things eight years ago isn't what it is now. I'm sure most although not everyone had any idea that Putin is as evil as he is.

The hanging of a Ukrainian flag in Subsim could perhaps be seen as politicizing Subsim although, I know that isn't the intention. Like everyone else, I feel the war in the Ukraine is and remains stupid on more levels than I care to discuss. Certainly, the U.S, U.K and many other countries are sending weapons for Ukraine to defend itself and will continue to do so even in the face of Russian threats. I believe the Ukraine needs heavier armaments to defend themselves.

I have noticed that our Subsim members from Russia have been silent on this issue. I think they probably feel as we all do that this stupid war is destructive and senseless. I think there may be other reasons as well.

Our Russian Subsim members may well have their internet access blocked. Further, It would be dangerous and perhaps deadly for our members in Russia to disagree with the official party line there. Reports have filtered out of Russia of dissenters and protestors being killed there in Russia. Certainly, if our Russian members have internet access, they are being closely monitored. We enjoy the luxury of expressing our views here in Subsim. Our members from Russia are not so lucky. In this way, they are victims as well. With that said, I certainly don't hold those Russian citizens responsible for this war. I hope our Subsim members from Russia don't feel the views expressed in opposition to the war here in Subsim to be an indictment of them.

I'm certain, with the determination and bravery that the Ukrainians have showed in this war that they will rebuild their country, with help, back to where it was before.

One final thought. I think the Russian invasion has been a colossal and strategic failure from start to finish. The economic damage to Russia will take many years to undo. Russia's standing in the world and foreign policy is in shambles. If the political aim was to decapitate The Ukrainian leadership, it failed miserably. Putin has failed to divide NATO and the alliance came together much faster than Russia anticipated.

Further, instead of dividing NATO, both Finland and Sweden are now set to join the alliance. Finland of course shares a border of some 800 miles with Russia. I think this demonstrates clearly how incompetent and inept Putin is.

I'm glad our Subsim members support Ukraine in it's struggles. Then again, I'm hardly surprised.
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Old 04-18-22, 07:40 AM   #20
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I do NOT see any politically in turning our Subsim logo into blue & Yellow.

We only get news from one side of the conflict-That's why I stay neutral-
Yes I support Ukraine in their effort to win the war and I support our military help we send to them.
But that's it when it comes to war crimes both side seems to be doing it..
I know from news here that Ukrainian has committed war crimes against Russian soldier, whether they have committed crime against civilians I don't know.
The Russian has on the other hand, committed severe war crimes not only against Ukrainian military but also against the civilians.

For this, the latter, I have difficult staying neutral.

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Old 04-18-22, 09:45 AM   #21
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Three people worked on the SH3 Onealex 1.53 mod: Onealex itself - the city of Lviv (Ukraine), Yura - the city of Vilyuchinsk (Russia), and I - the city of Donetsk (DPR). Without politics, controversy and general accusations. We just worked...)

It was one of the best moments in my life) I wish you all a peaceful sky above your head!)

Last edited by astvitaliy1982; 04-18-22 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 04-18-22, 01:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by astvitaliy1982 View Post
[...] Without politics, controversy and general accusations. We just worked...)
It was one of the best moments in my life) I wish you all a peaceful sky above your head!)
I wish you all the best. In the News there is being said that Putin has decided (said literally in a speech) to "eradicate the cities of Donetsk"(?). Maybe wrong translation, maybe just threats, maybe he does not care. Whatever side you're on, stay safe.
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Last edited by Catfish; 04-18-22 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 04-18-22, 02:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astvitaliy1982 View Post
Let me comment on the Ukrainian flag on the Subsim logo.

I, as a forum participant not from America or Europe, see a certain amount of cunning and populism in this.
This act is not fair to the citizens of Ukraine. If Subsim supported ending the war in Ukraine,
then the flag of this country on the logo would have been on the site for about 8 years.

Quote from Onkel Neal - "... because I support stopping the war and killing in Ukraine"

Because that's how much the war is going on in this country.
And hanging the flag on the logo right now, when Russia has entered this conflict, is rather illogical and incomprehensible ...
Based on the wishes of Onkel Neal.

No sane and normal person supports war in ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD.
But I don't remember that there were other flags on Subsim's website...

Based on this logic, it would be possible to hang the flags of the DNR / LNR and Ukraine on the logo, it would even
more correctly. Then it would be really clear that the Subsim website is against the war in Ukraine. because
CITIZENS of Ukraine are dying in this conflict, albeit under different flags. I am silent already about peaceful people.

But attaching the yellow-blue flag, this site, right now, (after Russia entered this conflict)
supports a certain side, in this case Ukraine. This is what it looks like for everyone.

The Subsim site was not political... we are all united by the love of the game and the story. But not for politics at the moment
moment of time. Today the agenda is one, tomorrow another, after tomorrow the third, so I think that -

"Don't bend under the changing world, let it bend under us"

A. Makarevich



As for forum members like Skybird, Armistead and the like....

We have one saying - "The farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans", I don't want to offend anyone,
so those who know will understand.

Thank you)

Russia didn’t enter this conflict Russia started this conflict.
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Old 04-18-22, 03:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockstar View Post
Russia didn’t enter this conflict Russia started this conflict.
Bingo!
Relativising a crime is in principle the same like committing or assisting a crime. Its a deflection of own responsiblity that Russia uses very often.
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Old 04-19-22, 05:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
That's a fair and valid criticism, there is a multitude of bad actors and an abundance of injustice and conflict in the world. In this case involving tanks and artillery destroying whole cities and thousands of people I feel the situation has passed a point where I can remain silent.
I'm certainly standing alongside you Neal.
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Old 04-19-22, 07:05 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jimbuna View Post
I'm certainly standing alongside you Neal.

I am as well. The Ukrainian colors show support. From most of the comments posted here, we are all good with that.
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Old 04-19-22, 03:11 PM   #27
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^You bet! Had it been the other way around I would cheer for Russia but things aren't the other way around.
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